Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections. An Interview with Grace Gavin and Michael A Forman
- mforman521
- Dec 5, 2025
- 24 min read
📍
Did you ever notice how the smallest conversation can change the shape of your life if you know what to listen for? Welcome to Networking Unleashed, building Profitable Connections. I'm Michael Foreman. On this show, we don't collect business cards. We'll learn to start conversations that matter, create trust that lasts and turn human moments into measurable value.
Today's episode peels back the mechanics of real connection, not tricks, not scripts, but the mindset, and that moves you and lets you influence, serve and grow without sounding like a salesperson. If you want fewer awkward, small talk sessions and more conversations that open doors, you're in the right place.
Stay curious. Take one idea, use it today and watch what happens tomorrow. I'd like to welcome to the podcast Grace Gavin. She has an remarkable background, but I'll let her tell you her background. Grace, welcome to the podcast. Michael, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited for whatever conversation we get into today.
Good. So give us a little bit about your background. Yeah, so I am the co-founder and co-author of a book and company by the same name, no honesty. And for those who are listening, that's KNOW, not NO, but a little bit of play on words there. And what we really focus on as an organization is changing how the world communicates one conversation at a time.
I think that really plays into what we're gonna talk about here today, especially when it comes to networking and having those conversations. But really it's all about helping people master communication. And how I got into that is I got a business education very young in my life. I grew up in a family business.
Half our kitchen table was the accounting department. The door you walked into in the house was also the office. So I would walk in and my dad would be having business conversations with our insurance broker or our seed salesman, things like that, or with employees. We had a family owned dairy farm and so got an education very young in the importance of business and networking and all of those pieces.
And then from there years later in my professional life, I partnered with a gentleman who's now co-author with me on the book. Founder of the business name is Ken Bogar. But we were helping teams at the time implement EOS and what we found if anybody's. Familiar with EOS. It's the Entrepreneur Operating System, and it's this proven system for running your business on.
But what we kept finding over and over again is that teams would work to implement this proven system, thousands upon tens of thousands of businesses running on it. But they would still really struggle and it would be difficult to implement this system. Things wouldn't move nearly as quickly. And we just were like, okay, what's going on here?
What's happening? And what really it came down to, what we found it was the team's ability, or in this case, inability to communicate. And that was the foundation of every issue. And so looking at that, we said, all right, we gotta help leaders. Develop the skill of communication, because a lot of times we think that because we as human beings can talk, we have words that we use that we can communicate, but it's really a skill to be developed, especially if you wanna be a high performing individual or high performing team.
Which leads us into the work that I do today, working with teams to master communication, and we do that through. Simple, tangible and implementable practices. So maybe we'll get into that a little bit here today. But that's the long and short of my background, Michael. That it sounds very apropos to what we're talking about today.
I, I do workshops, I do conferences. I go into big businesses and I teach networking and communication. But I coach the C-suite executives about the communication because everything rolls downhill. So if they don't if I teach just the people who are doing the job one thing, but I leave the C-Suite executives alone, then they're just going to do the same thing they've always done, and they're not gonna go anywhere.
So that's just what I do also. Okay. So let's jump into the first question. What first taught you that connection, not selling or strategy is the real time engine behind your success and you share one and you, can you share one moment that the idea changed everything for you? Yeah. I, one moment I think.
When I first started years ago, Michael, in my professional career I started out going to networking events and it was part of my job and I had never really been to networking events prior to that. I was new into the professional world. And so I showed up to these events and what I saw. And what I thought I had to be was this perfect version of a business person.
And I say that in quotes, there wasn't any, I certainly didn't talk to you before I was there, and so I just thought, okay, I guess this is what we do. We wear the uncomfortable blazers and the uncomfortable shoes, and we have the boring conversation that you know how it goes. How are you?
Good. How are you? Good. What do you do? It was terrible and it, and I just, I didn't love them and I didn't look forward to them, but I had to go to them as part of my job. And so what I noticed was happening is that I would see a networking event on my calendar. I would get this feeling of dread Ugh, I do not wanna go to this.
I would show up just in time for it starting, some events have like pre-event networking. I was not there, not interested in that by any means. And then I was outta there as soon as it was done because what I found is that it was exhausting for me. It was exhausting my energy and I never really made any great business connections coming out of that.
I was like, okay I've, I identify as a problem solver and I thought this is a problem. This is something that I know I'm gonna continue to do in my career. Most likely this isn't working. It's straining my energy. I'm not making any good business or any kind of connections coming out of it. So what's going on here?
And this is actually one of the practices that I talk about and teach with my leaders, but what was happening for me in these networking events is I was showing up as fake. You. So fake you is one of our practices. And that's what was happening that whole time, right? I'm not a perfect version of a business person.
I can tell you that for certain, but I can also tell you that 'cause it doesn't exist. There's no such thing as perfection. But I wasn't in conversations that I was in, interested in, I wasn't making genuine connections with people. And so of course there wasn't that trust. There wasn't the. Connection that needed to happen for people to really trust me and to do business with me.
So I was like, okay, that was the aha. That's what was going on. And so I started to shift in the way that I, I showed up still in my professional attire, but I showed up in clothing that was comfortable, that I felt like I didn't have to think about what I was wearing. I started to ask questions about okay, how did you get into this industry?
Or What is it that drives you to do this work? Let them ask questions of me back in that way. And in that way, I could tell a full story of the business that I was doing and not just a. Here's what I do in a robot type of sense. And that might have changed everything because not only was I making those real connections, but I was also enjoying myself.
I was showing up with a much if you will, lighter air. And people are more attracted to that and they wanna have conversations with individuals like that. Not the same. Tired, how are you? Good, good. What do you do? Nobody wants to do that. But we all default to it for some reason. That's in a nutshell what I would say to that what you finally got to is your authenticity.
Your authentic self and the way that you handle networking events or networking as a whole. You don't go in there with business in mind. It's contrary to popular belief, but you go in there with a servant's heart. You go in there speaking to the other people about how you can solve their problem without you even saying what you are doing there, what your business is.
I. You have, and I use something called FORM, family, occupation, recreation, and a message. And you pick any one of the above because everybody loves to talk about themselves. And when you get the other person to talk about themselves, you're taking all the pressure off yourself. You can be your authentic self and you listen to them.
Their father, father, mother, sister, brother, aunt, uncle, son, daughter, whatever. Or what do you like to do? You like to go skiing? Oh, so do I. You like to go boating? Oh, that's great. You like to play baseball? So do I Football? Yeah. So do I. Get somewhere on the same playing field and then talk about it.
You shouldn't, whatever meeting you have, you shouldn't talk business for the first 10 minutes. It should be completely different. And that just takes all the pressure off your shoulders. You enjoy the networking events. When I go, I'm the first one there and I'm the last one to leave because I'm enjoying myself so much that I'm talking to everybody.
And we'll get into that later on. Okay, so you often say real connection. How do you define it and how can someone tell if they're creating it? Or faking it. Yeah. So real, right? What we talk about is. Is that connection, the communication, really how we create connection is through communication as human beings.
And so what I emphasize with clients is it's not just communication for communication's sake. Because if a leader thinks about their. Week, we know that they spend about 88% of their weeks communicating. And so it's not just, let's add more communication for communication's sake, but we want it to be real.
We want it to be the conversations that change, that move the needle that make a difference. And so Michael, what we really found in our research when we were looking at. Communication is a skill that leaders need. This is how. How do we help them develop that? What we really found within there was it is two foundational skills of communication and keeping it real simple.
The two skills are open and honest. Now, a lot of times those two words get squished together and they just, we take it to just be about ourselves. But they are two very different words, two very different skills. And so to get to that real connection, that real communication, we need both, but we need to think about them completely separate of each other.
And so honesty is, we define it as being truly and freely yourself, speaking into what you want and how you feel. So that's the authenticity piece that we already talked about, right? People can pick up on that pretty quickly if you're not being authentic. It's just something that we can sense as human beings.
But then on the other side of it, the question becomes I think it's pretty clear. We all want to be authentic. That's the most ideal state. We all want to be honest. We all want to say what we think, how we feel, be truly and freely ourselves. So then the question for us became why doesn't that happen?
What is it that holds us back? Like why do we have to talk about being honest or being authentic as being the brave thing or being courageous when it should just, when it should ideally just be our default. And so what we really found in the research and what we were looking at this is that there was a lack of openness, or at least a perceived lack of openness.
And now openness is something that we take and we. We flip what we mean by that. So a lot of times people will take openness as being an open book or being transparent. To me, that's still wrapped up in the honesty side of things. That's still about me, myself, and I. But if we're gonna have real connection, real communication, going back and forth, what we need on the other side is the openness as we define it, which is listening without reservation, putting your needs and wants on pause for someone else.
So we think about in that networking example that you're talking about, your need or your want is to have. Business come out of it, right? Some type of revenue generation. But how do we really be in service of another person? How do we help them? We pause that need that want for a moment, and we really hear what the other person is saying.
We're looking for, what do they really need? How do I help them? How do I understand them best? And in that way, when you have that exchange going on, where I'm able to be a hundred percent honest with you, Michael, you're a hundred percent open to it. And I trust that. And then back. You're a hundred percent honest with me because, I'm a hundred percent honest to it, man, can we really get some stuff done?
Can we really make a real genuine connection there? That's the two pieces of it. So simple yet so sometimes difficult to do and not talked about nearly enough, which is why I do what I do. You think that people try to do it so hard that they wound up faking it?
Yes. Yeah, I haven't, yeah, I think, we're told to. Listen, but we're not really taught how to listen, and so that can look like we're performing the ways of listening, like doing a lot of head nodding and doing the yeah. Uhhuh. Yeah. Which actually is just interrupting somebody.
And that's performing the listening versus actually listening to them making that genuine eye contact. Are you really hearing what they have to say or are you just waiting for your next opportunity to speak? Even if that next opportunity is a question you're gonna ask, that still means that you're thinking about that question rather than listening to what they're actually saying.
True. And that's actually called active listening because you need to listen to your the person you're speaking with 100% nothing else. And you need to, after they say it, you recite some of it back to them to say, okay, so I understand it that. You were saying this, you're in need of that, or whatever the case may be, to show them that you are listening by a hundred percent, right?
So you can have a true, interactive conversation about whatever the conversation was, right? So that is active listening. Okay, so what are the three daily habits or micro routines you practice that keeps your communication sharp and authentic? The first one is one of the practices we teach to clients, which is the agreement.
So it's a simple proven script to start any conversation that's gonna get you to real communication so much faster. For the audience listening, I highly recommend you write this next. Phrase down 'cause it's the agreement and it's gold. I'm gonna give it to you in full. So here Michael, we're gonna do it together.
Okay? You don't have to do anything up. Here we go. Will you agree with me on how we're going to communicate? I want you to be a hundred percent honest, meaning I want you to be truly and freely yourself speaking into what you want and how you feel. I promise I'll be a hundred percent open to it. I will listen without reservation.
I'll put my needs and wants on pause for you, and in return, I'll be honest with you and I ask that you be completely open to it. Sound good? Sounds good. That's the entire agreement you use that every single day, man. Your relationships will transform. I use it with my team. I teach it to all of my clients.
I have them use it. We use it with all of our third party vendors within our business, and it has transformed the level of conversation that we get to have because we get past all the fluff so much faster, and we get down to the root of the real issue happening. So that's number one. Number two and number three tie together a little bit.
But I think about these are two other practices that we teach clients. And I think about, what gets in the way of communication, right? And there's a whole. List of things that I could give you, but it's really these two things, and it is fake you that we already talked about. When you're projecting that facade is getting in the way of real, genuine connection and people can sense that.
And then the other thing is the wall. And so the wall is the divide we put between ourselves and others rather than being a hundred percent open. So think about when you are not listening to somebody, what essentially you are doing to them. Is you are putting up a giant brick wall between you and them and what is gonna happen to your conversation there.
So those are two things that I look out for on a daily basis in this conversation. My being a fake version of myself. And why is that? What's going on there? In this conversation? Am I putting up the wall? Do I really not wanna hear what this person has to say? Am I not engaged? Am I not interested?
What's going on there? Why is that happening? And we're digging into that every single day. And so those are the three. The agreement starts conversation off on the right foot and then, which inevitably will happen if we fall short of a hundred percent honest or a hundred percent open. We gotta look at what's going on there.
Where's fake? You pop popping up. Where's the wall popping up? And so those are the ways that I think about it to keep it so simple but in front of me still. It goes right along with the networking that you're trying to get everybody to wrap their head around. And it's very simple. It's the old saying, know you, like you, trust you.
They'll do business with you. Everybody will know you. If you're a nice person, everybody's not everybody's gonna like you. That kind of narrows the field down. But that wall that you were talking about, that wall is always right in front of the trust. And as you're speaking with them authentically and you're having them tell you what they like and everything else, they're talking about themselves, that wall is coming down and that trust factor.
Is going up, and then you can begin to do business. And not before. Some people try to put the cart before the horse and they try to they walk into a networking event. Hi, I'm Mike Foreman, I do this. I really don't care. I don't, I'm not here for that. And you move on.
But, okay, so let's go with, listening versus talking. Most people listening matters. What specific listening skill separates average networkers from exceptional ones? That is a fantastic question.
I think I'm gonna go with a personal example for me, but I. It goes back to what we were talking about before. What I find is I get so excited when I talk to somebody and I ask them so many questions. And they'll say something and I'm like, Ooh, I got a question about that. But they're not done speaking yet.
And so now I'm thinking, I gotta ask 'em this question 'cause I'm really interested in this and I miss the second half of everything that they say. And so really exercising that muscle, I really believe it's a muscle of. Pausing that voice in your brain that's constantly coming up with questions or comments or things that you could say to really hear what the individual is saying all the way through, I think the most powerful thing.
Is, it is a pause at the end of when somebody speaks. It doesn't have to be a long one, like a half a second long, but what that really is your brain fully processing what they had to say, and then you'll have a great question after that or a comment or something like that. Your brain will come up with it, I promise you.
But practicing that skill is something that I work on actively, because otherwise I feel like I end up brushing them through whatever they were gonna say and they don't actually feel heard. I'm trying to help them feel heard by asking another question. And that's so on point when this all goes back to the active listening.
And the most important part about the listening is the pause. And nobody evaluates that pause. Like it's something important, but it's probably the most important part of listening. So you're right on point with that. Okay. How do you balance being open? I'm sorry? How do you balance being open enough to build trust while protecting your time and energy?
I,
the time and energy man, that is, I think that is an ongoing evaluation that I do. So I think about, for me, it's important where I show up consistently. So consistency is an important part of trust for what I do and what I build with people. But that also means that sometimes I can show up in spaces multiple times that aren't.
That aren't a place where I'm adding value or that is adding value for what I'm looking for as well. And so I think that's a consistent practice that I have asking, am I adding value here? Is the value on the other side making sense? So I think that is a key part of it, that is a key part of it.
And when you said adding value to the conversation to what you're doing. Is whenever somebody perceives you giving value to the conversation or to what you're doing, then they'll listen. If they don't perceive you giving value to it, they turn you off. They'll say, okay who's next? That's very much on point.
I know I keep saying on point. I shouldn't keep saying on point, but it's on point. That's good. The other thing too, Michael, that I had here when we look at, we have an assessment that measures people's ability to be honest and to be open. And then we break it down further into your personal life and your work life.
'cause sometimes I've been to networking events where we just gotten overshare which I think there's a place for all of it, but. I think about what hat am I wearing? Am I wearing my personal hat? Am I wearing my professional hat? And when it comes to that, what I mean by that is am I sharing something that helps, going back to value, give value to the conversation.
So for example if somebody's sharing that they're, they're going through a difficult time with an employee because of. X, y, z example. Do I have something that I can share with that is maybe a little bit deeper than what I would've shared in the conversation previously, but it's gonna help them through that.
And so I think about, how do I continue to add value, add that trust, and share in that professional setting with what makes sense and helps us advance forward and helps them in their life too. When you look to give value to something and don't expect anything in return, that's the key. You're just giving them an answer to their question, and you've answered it.
You've helped them through it. They're undoubtedly going to ask you again or then become a client or something in between. But that's always the first step is giving value to what you're doing. Yeah. Walk us through the first five minutes, the high value networking encounter, and what do you say? What do you ask and what do you avoid?
Ooh, the first. Yeah. Yeah. I like these. Okay. I think about, I. So I get to know them a little bit. And typically what people wanna jump into immediately, because we're trained on this when we go to networking events, I think is the back to the what do you do, question. And so they just jump into immediately, I'm whatever title from whatever company.
Okay, fantastic. But what I wanna do is I wanna get a level deeper with them. For me, that's just, that's purely how I'm built, is I wanna know a little bit more about the person. And so I'll ask them a question around okay, what got you into that? Or Why are you passionate about it? Or a question like that.
Where we get to get deeper very quickly. And then from there, we follow the conversation wherever that goes. And then inevitably what I'm asking is, I'm asking about. What's coming next for them. And that is purely from a, how do I help them? So if there's a big project that they're thinking about, or sometimes within meeting somebody, they tell 'em within five minutes, they're like, yeah, I'm looking actually for a new job.
I'm like, oh, okay. Good to know and let me keep an eye out for you. Something like that. But just trying to get that level deeper so we're not in that routine conversation. And I get your spiel and you get my spiel. Absolutely. And you want to stay away from those awkward conversations and stay away from those stale conversations.
So it's you being you have to, you can say whatever you wanna say, ask any question you want, as long as it's not a default way that you are always being, when you're in a networking group, a networking environment, you have to be the person. They're gonna feel your energy. You have to be up and always with a smile and saying, okay, look, you know in your head that this person isn't gonna work for you.
I'm gonna move on, but how are you gonna move on? How are you gonna politely bow out and move on to the next person? Yes. Okay, but let's say that this was a failed connection. All right? When a connection goes cold, or you say the wrong thing. What's a straightforward step to repair it? Oh, I think just owning it.
That's, I That came out wrong or no. It was, it had to have been perfect. It perfect. Because listen, nobody's perfect. And I've made. 10,000 mistakes, in my lifetime. But one thing I've learned is you own it. You own the mistake. And so that's exactly what you do. It's up to you, but you own the mistake.
Yeah. Okay. So how do you change your communication style between a boardroom a and a gym class? A one-on-one coffee without losing authenticity.
A boardroom gym, coffee shop. I think about
for me what is consistency in that and one of the important things in my background, like I shared, was growing up in a family business, and so that translates from the boardroom when I'm talking with. Executives are like, yes, I've seen your struggle. I'm also in your struggle. But I've also seen it for a long historical perspective and other problems that leaderships deal with.
For me, it's an important part of my story, so it's probably gonna show up if I'm in the gym having a conversation and if I'm in a coffee shop having a conversation. And so figuring it out from there and always thinking about how do I tell that story. How do I keep it consistent and not, cherry picking pieces out of it, but just this is who I am.
It's probably cherry picking pieces depending on where you are, whether it's a boardroom or coffee shop or something like that. But I think you were right when you said cherry picked part of your story because you're telling the same story. I. 'cause that's how you got here and how you're going to help them.
But you are who you are and you're gonna cherry pick the certain sections that you feel is the right move for the venue. And I think the other part too, Michael, for me, is where I think it's important and where I get. I lose people or maybe people get confused in the cherry picking is I'm not telling the perfectly polished stories I'm telling you about how we didn't communicate well in the business, or I'm telling you about how, another client of mine protecting their anonymity a little bit, but telling them another story of where they didn't do so well when it came to communication. I'm not just giving the glossy versions of things, and for me in my leadership, that's really important because I need leaders to know that, especially as I'm helping them develop these skills that they.
Gonna get it wrong and it's gonna be messy. And that's part of leadership and that's part of, really part of being a human being. But when we get into leadership, we get this weird idea that we have to show up perfectly. And that's not the case. And so whatever story I'm telling, wherever I'm telling it, there's gonna be a point where you see that I failed, or that another person in the story example that I'm sharing failed things like that.
And so that is where, to me, the consistency comes through. Okay good. How do you track whether your relationships are actually paying off professionally or personally without sounding transactional? Yeah. The transactional piece, that's difficult. Yeah. The,
I think it comes back to the value side of things. Just as a person of faith, really trusting that there's a reason this relationship exists. And so whether it's because I am giving more or because they are giving more for this time or this season that it will come back. And so there's a reason that this relationship is happening now.
If it becomes one where it's just a take take, that's a real conversation that we have to have that I have to have with that individual to say, Hey, I love helping you, and I feel as though I'm just giving in this relationship. And then we talk about it and it's as simple as having that conversation or being really clear with people to say, Hey, here's where you know, if you're going to, for example, refer me, we're talking, we're talking about networking.
Referrals happen. It can be the best source of business. Here's what's really helpful, and getting really clear with people on that. And in that way it's not, it can feel transactional, but I don't think it is because it's actually clarity as a gift to that individual. And it's a gift to anybody that they might refer to you.
Because if somebody refers to me and they're looking for, I don't know, disc or Enneagram work or for any kind of example like that certainly I can help them. They're great facilitators and facilitators around those that I know, but that's not gonna be me. And so giving that clarity to them helps them also be a better connector of individuals too.
And so how do you help everybody shine in the best way possible? I think it's gotta be clear, and sometimes that comes across as transactional, but I don't think it is. No. I agree. I agree. Communication is key and the more open everybody is, the closer we are to getting to the transaction the business part of it.
But that comes way, way over here. All this has to happen first. Okay, so let's bring this podcast full circle. And through a little 30 day challenge for my listeners, give our audience one simple 30 day practice that will make them measurably better at creating real create connections and what it is and how they should measure progress.
To measure progress. Okay. That, that changes it a little bit because I was gonna say, go back and listen to the segment on the agreement and now use that with any individual you can conversation with. That was very good. That was very good. And all my listeners, they should listen to that segment and implement that as the contract.
Okay. Within 30 days. But there's the second half of the question, how are they gonna measure? Progress. Yeah. So when it comes to that, the, for the agreement, the measurement of it are you using it, are you not? And then evaluating post conversation. How did it go? Did you get to a deeper level?
But if they wanna be really measurable, we have an assessment that gives them the, that I was talking about a little bit earlier, the realtime data. So if you go to no honesty.com/assessment, so kw honesty.com/assessment, there's a about a 10 minute assessment you can take that's gonna give you your real time ability to deliver and receive real communication.
And so we're looking at how. How honest are you? How open are you? And if they want the measurable, those are the numbers to look at and say, okay, in my conversations, I'm 60% honest, or in my conversations, I'm 50% open. And then you can go take that again, it's an assessment you can take over and over. We typically recommend every six months or so, but certainly can do it within 30 days and starting that education piece there.
So are we developing this? Are we getting better at this? Because I will tell you the people who succeed the most, the people who get looked to as high trust, engaging. Our exceptional leaders are the two, are the people who develop and display and live out those two skills of being open and being honest.
So there's your measurable thing that they can go do. That was fantastic. Fantastic. Grace, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast, and if somebody wants to get a hold of you about one of your programs or to be coached or just to ask you a question, what's the best way for them to get a hold of you?
They can one of two ways. You can shoot me a LinkedIn message. I'm on LinkedIn under Grace Gavin. Feel free to follow me there. I post about this all the time. And the other way a little bit more direct is you can reach out to me via email. My email is Grace. At no honesty.com I. Again, KNOW honesty.com.
Important distinction to make there, Michael. But shoot me an email and let's have a conversation about this because we've had a short one here today, but I could go on and on and I talk about this all day long with my clients and wrestle with, this ability, this skill. How do we build these things and talk through it.
Reach out to me there. Love to have conversations about this and bring me your challenges. Bring me your questions, whatever it might be. Fantastic. Grace, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thanks for having me, Michael.
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Folks. A huge thank you to our guests for sharing such incredible insights today, and of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in and spending your time with us. If you're interested in my digital courses being coached or having me come and talk to your company, just go to MichaelAForman.com and fill out the request form.
Remember, networking isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. So take what you've learned today, get out there and make some meaningful connections. If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a review. Share it with someone who could use a little networking inspiration.
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Michael is a business networking expert specializing in enhancing professionals' networking and communication skills to drive profitability. As a leading authority in this field, he is highly sought after for his dynamic presentations and workshops. His extensive experience has consistently led to significant improvements in corporate profitability by empowering individuals and organizations to connect more effectively and efficiently.
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