Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections. An Interview with Scott Miller and Michael A Forman
- mforman521
- Jul 3
- 23 min read
Welcome to Networking Unleashed, building Profitable Connections, the show where meaningful relationships create real opportunity. I'm your host, Michael Forman. Building a business isn't a straight line. Every entrepreneur faces obstacles, moments where the strategy feels uncertain. The pressure builds and the next step isn't always clear.
What often makes the difference is those moments isn't just skill or determination, it's the relationships around you. My guest today has experienced the journey of overcoming challenges while scaling businesses to new levels. We're gonna talk about how strong connections help entrepreneurs navigate tough decisions.
Why trust becomes even more important as a company grows, and how the right conversations can open doors when progress feels difficult. If you wanna learn how resilience and relationships work together to create real business growth, you're in the right place. I'd like to welcome to the podcast today, Scott, I, I know you are gonna talk about all this stuff and I'm really looking forward to the podcast, but I'm really interested in you and how you got where you are today.
Why don't you enlighten us a little bit? Sure. So I won't tell you all the boring details, but when I was 27 years old, I was homeless. I was living on the streets. I was living a very strange life, right? So by my own doing by the way luckily I got out of that situation. Somebody showed some interest in me, which the reason I bring that up is because I think that's relatable to anything in life, personal or business, right?
Somebody took an interest in me. They believed in me and they said, Hey, we're willing to help you out. And, and I was I became a truck driver, right? I was a teamster truck driver in Brooklyn, New York, and one day I was driving down the street and I was like, you know what? This is not for me.
Nothing wrong with being a truck driver, by the way, but I just realized that I had a lot more potential than that. I left that job and I ended up starting a trucking company, right? With a partner and we built that thing from we bought a little tiny company and we both had a couple of trucks.
So I think our first year of revenue was about 145,000, something like that. We built that business up to about 6 million bucks. And then I left that I have three kids, they're all adults now, at that time I made the decision to go back to the corporate world, right? So I spent.
Many years in the corporate world, building businesses, building big sales teams. My last endeavor in the corporate world was bringing new product to market for a specialty vehicle manufacturer. We took that thing from I'll call it a negative 12 million 'cause it was a $12 million investment. And when I retired from that two years ago they did about 450 million bucks, something like that, for that one division.
A few years before that, I had started a couple of my own businesses. One, I started on my own, one I have with my wife, and then that's bloomed into four businesses now. What was supposed to be retirement and taken it easy is turned into be more work and many more hours. And of course, as you probably know, Michael I work for the single worst boss on planet earth, which is myself absolutely ab Absolutely, yeah. There is no worse boss than yourself. 'cause you're so hard on yourself. You don't give yourself any leeway. Listen, if you've made it in business, you're that kind of a boss.
That's right. That's how I can tell whether you made it or not. Okay. That's good. So anyway so thank you for that. Let's just go into a few questions and we'll see where that takes us. Sure. When building and scaling a business, how do relationships help you navigate obstacles that strategy alone can't solve?
Yeah, I believe this is just my personal belief that people. And by virtue of that or extension of that, relationships is the single most critical piece of being able to determine whether a business will succeed or not, right? Matter of fact, I'm dealing with a company right now that I consult with.
They have wrong people like the owner brought in some wrong people upfront. They're good people, they're hardworking, but they're not, they don't have the skillset, they don't have the know-how. So it's extremely important to have, first of all, at least one or two people that you can trust implicitly and they trust you.
And then from there you can build out a team. And look it's very important to, I discovered in over the years and running corporate businesses and then running my own businesses. Leaders, develop leaders. They don't lead people. Yes, they lead. Yes they set the direction, but they create other leaders and that's what gets your business to grow.
That's what gets your enterprise to become very robust. You hit on a very important strategic. Point, right? Does I, and some of my workshops, or when I go on stages and I talk. I talk about leaders and bosses. And the differences between the two. And the thing is that you want leaders. You don't want bosses.
You don't want some middle management guy taking the orders and giving the orders and walking away and say, that's enough. You want those leaders to get down into the foxhole with them and to give them the responsibility and show them what true leadership is. Taking the bad with the good.
That's right. Taking your hits, Wendy, and it shows that, but that shows you so much and you're absolutely 100% correct. You want leaders. You don't want bosses or management or anything else like that, right? That's right. So you can have a hundred employees, you have a hundred leaders. That's right. Okay.
Looking back at your journey. Where was, where, was there a connection or a conversation that helped you overcome a major challenge? Wow, that's a great question. One of the, I worked at GE Capital many years ago, one of the divisions of GE Capital. And that division was owned by Roger Penske, the very famous race car Penske Racing. And very famous. He owns car dealerships, all kinds billionaire. And the first time I met him in person, he, I got introduced to him.
We were with a group of people, and then I saw him several months later at an event, an awards event down in Scottsdale, Arizona. I came walking into the room and I walked over toward him and he said, Scott Miller from New Jersey, how the heck are you? This guy's a billionaire, right? I'm like, and I'm scratching my head.
I'm looking around for who's holding up the cue cards or something like, how does he know my name? And and he and I got talking and he thanked me for the job I was doing with the company and blah, blah, blah. He said something that was very key to my growth over the years is he said to me, he said, if you ever have a problem, reach out to me and I'll help you.
And I thought he was just saying that I thought it was just nice ease, and and what I discovered afterwards, the event was over and I was talking to some VP or something I said. Man, I walked down there how he knew my name, like he offered to help me.
And and he said first of all, once he meets you, he'll remember your name always. And this guy must meet thousands and thousands of people. I don't know how the heck he does it. And he said, and when he told you to reach out to him, and he said, he doesn't tell everybody that. He tells many people, but not everybody.
He means that if you need something, call him up. Reach out to his assistant and he'll connect with you and help you. But the thing he told me that night was he said, when you're doing well, when you think you're all that and things are going great, don't forget that you're just a guy.
Like you're just a human being. And we do make mistakes and we do have problems. And when you do take that moment to reflect back. The wins that you've had and the things that you've, not just in business, but the things you've overcome in life. So that was probably the single best, that was a very great encouragement that I got early in my career.
And that's so good because I think of, I know a handful of, I wouldn't say billionaires, but they're millionaires and. Two or three of them are like, you can't even talk to them. They're so above you, right? But then there are two or three that I know of that are, that they'll give you the shirt off their back, yeah. They're just nice guys and they want to hang out with you, and they're just so real and authentic. And I know the difference that you're talking about and it's it's very important to not lose track of who you are, and that's right where you came from. How difficult, how do difficult periods in business change the way someone approaches networking and partnerships?
Yeah. Again, in my, in, from where I sit relationships and people in your business are absolutely critical to your success. And when you meet with a set pack or a problem, or if you meet with a person. Who's not genuine. You find out afterwards that these are not people that are necessarily in your corner and not, against the grain of what seems to have developed in society today.
You don't have to make a big to-do about it. Just exercise those people from your life, and do it quickly. The old saying of ripping the bandaid off, get around. Going back to the interesting part is I know a lot of millionaires, some of them are Novo Re right?
They're pretty impressed with how they made them. They got a million bucks and then there's the people from old money, they're, they think about it differently. The billionaire and I know three billionaires, I'm friends with 3 billion. These are people that are willing to help you. They want you to win.
See, they have nothing left to prove they do. These are people that are very, they're still going on an upward reduction, but they have nothing to prove at that point. You know what I mean? And so the three of them that I'm personal friends with two of them and I'm pretty friendly with the other one, is they're willing they see the value in helping people, especially when they've had a defeat.
Many people, men, more so than women, I think, when they meet with defeat and business, we tend to hide. We don't want to tell people about it. It's embarrassing. It's humiliating, it dings our pride, it dings our ego, right? But when you know that you have certain people around you that you can reach out for or support, and not just support, there's one thing they have to say, Hey man, that's too bad. Pat you on the back. Let's look at what happened. Look at what happened. Let's develop a plan for going forward from here. Great. And now they kick you in your butt and say, Hey, now it's time to go. No more lick in your wounds. No more crying about it.
You had that part is over now let's go. So you know that if you realize that's, there's nothing wrong with failure. Then it's easy to still look for not only networking opportunities, but I'm always trying to elevate myself in the crowd that I keep, the people that I try to get around.
Just for that reason, because I know that people who have been there and done that and know a lot more than me and have a lot more money than me and a lot more success. I know that many of these people, not all the, but many of them, are willing to help. It's so true. And really it I don't look at the money aspect of it.
It's if the person has made it. And making it doesn't necessarily mean they're super wealthy. Yeah. Making it is just making it right. And whether or not they're, they offer a hand, they offer their support, their, it's, I mentor three or four kids at this time. Yeah. And I coach them and I part of my business.
That's great. I also have a coach. Yeah. And he's somebody who has made it. And he's always willing, and he doesn't charge me for it, but he is always willing to say no, I want you to step back. I want you to think about this and I want you to do, think about it, X, Y, Z. And it's a whole different, it's a whole different personality that you take on because you know that they have nothing to lose.
They have nothing really to gain. They have nothing to lose, but they're to help you. That's right. And that, that speaks volumes to me. Yeah. Okay. When scaling a business, how do you identify which relationships will move the company forward? Again, that's, that comes more into not just skillset, but how people think, right?
Usually when I work with a business to scale. There's a couple of checkpoints. There's checkpoints where people get stuck along the way, and they're all, every one of these checkpoints has to do with people. It has to do with the right people to grow a business, right? So the first thing is, you're an entrepreneur.
Maybe you're a solopreneur, whatever, excuse me. And you get over the million dollar mark. That's a great achievement. Around $3 million, that person will get stuck. They need another person in that business at that point to get them over that $3 million hurdle, right? The next checkpoint is around seven, $8 million.
And again, they need, at that point, they need to hand the operations of the business off to a trusted servant at that point. So they can be more of a visionary in the business. Yes, they may still have their hand in the business and guiding it, whatever, but. They need to think more strategically at that point.
So you have to have that person that you trust and it's absolutely critical. The wrong people will be, will hold you back. I'm, I mentioned earlier, I'm working with a company right now, guy's stuck around $10 million. He has the wrong management team, the wrong team. And they're great people, but they're, they don't have the skillset to grow a business.
This guy wants to do a hundred million dollars a year. He's got a 10 x from where he is right now, and we have conversation after conversation about you have to let these people go, move them into a different position or let them go and align yourself with people that have the skillset to do it, but also think like you, right?
If you have somebody who's super conservative. You are more aggressive. That's gonna be, it can be a healthy conflict if the conservative guy's your CFO, but if it's a visionary guy or gal, you want them to have more of a be a little bit more bullish on how you're gonna grow the business.
But yeah it's very important skillset, but also mindset. Do they have a similar. Thinking style, I'll call it. As you now tell me if I overstep my bounds here a little bit. What did that company do? Did he move the employees the way you suggested or not? He's making the move right now.
I literally was on a call with him this morning, so he's now moved. One of the people who very capable person. Workwise. But they're a very emotional person. They don't get along with other, people in the organization. They look at other people as threats to themselves. And so I've been telling, Hey, this woman needs to move out of the role she's in, into something else, which he's actually, we executed on that this morning, so we let her know.
So now she's, I think at first she thought she was getting fired, which she was not. She's a great person, by the way. She's very loyal, very good at what she does. She's just not right for the level of role that she was in. She needs a little bit more development. She may fit into that, somewhere down the road, but not right now.
Okay. Okay. I was just interested. That's all. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What signals tell you some someone has the resilience and mindset to be a valuable long-term partner? Look, the people that are willing to do what it takes, they're easy to spot these days. I don't know if this is a knock on younger people.
I'm assuming some of your audience is younger, so please don't send me hate mail or anything like that, but. I'm 68 years old. The work ethic from my generation to what I see now, and by the way, these young folks are super talented very smart, but they have a different viewpoint of the world as to what is, what it takes to get things done.
And I have, one of my children, by the way, is a millennial, very talented person. Super, super talented salesperson, maid. At a very young age, made a lot of money. And then he retired when he was 30 years old. Right now he's going back into the work game and I was talking to him. He is yeah, I don't work.
I don't wanna work more than, a few hours a day. And this, I'm we live, I literally just got home from Vietnam. We live part of the year in Vietnam. Suzy gets cold in Chicago. We go to Vietnam and, and we were in a we were doing a a business conference in Tran, which is mid-coast.
And then we went up to Ang. And those two areas are known for expats from all over, us, Canada, Europe, Australia. They go there and they live this laptop lifestyle. And when you see this on social media, you're thinking, wow this would be great. And then I go and I see how they live and I'm like.
I don't, it's great that you work three hours a week, but I don't wanna live like you Doug. But anyway it's and it's easy to, when you ask people, I'll give you an example. This company that we were just talking about, we have ano, we have a woman, we wanna move into a general manager role at that company, and she's not quite ready yet, but we mentioned her.
Few things. And then she heard the CEO say he made a passing comment one day on one of our meetings. He's I wish somebody knew how to do Excel, work in Excel. It's seems like nobody knows how to do that anymore. And then the next meeting we had with her, she said, Hey, I just wanna let you guys know I signed up for Excel and I'm going through this six month long.
Online course, but it's with a live, teacher. She did that on her own, so of course we asked her how much she paid for it and we reimbursed her for, it wasn't very much money, but the point is she took the initiative. She heard something and took the initiative to learn how to do that and how to, be good at, be better at her job and bring more value to the company.
Yeah. Not. Again, not saying anything against my younger listeners. Yeah, I'm 64. I'm 64. Yeah. Okay. You and I grew up at the same age at doing, working as hard and picking up on those little. Little nuances saying if the boss said that he needed this, I did everything in my power either to do it, to learn it, to get it to whatever the case may be.
So the next time I was in his presence, I said, I got that. Or I'm learning that I'm being taught that, or I'm doing this. I took the initiative on my own. And, I speak at high schools, at colleges, gen Z how they are not making it in the workforce, how they are. I did a whole thing from about a thousand employers.
Yeah. And 700 employers. Won't deal with the Gen Z person. Yeah. Three. The other 300 won't even give them the interview. And, the questions were like why? And it's very simple. They don't wanna have to deal with their, I only wanna work three days a week. I only wanna work five hours a day.
I, I need time off to have my dry cleaning done. All that kind of stuff. And, it's. It's very typical. So I go in and I talk to these students about that and how to get through it. Yeah. But that it all comes in it's a different, it's a mindset. It's a different mindset.
Yeah. There was a saying when you and I came up called you had to earn your stripes. Absolutely. And it wasn't just given to you. And, I'm I'm gonna back up and defend the Gen Z slightly right now and say. Maybe I'm gonna insult them in and back 'em up at the same time.
But we've created this laziness by virtue of how easy it is to do things. Calculators, computers, now AI does everything for you. And by virtue of that, we're creating a an entire world of people that are inherently lazy. They're not lazy people. They're just taught to be lazy in how they do things.
They don't have to think, they don't, when pocket calculators first came out, my father is a nuclear engineer, and I said, Hey, can I go get one of these pocket calculators? He said, Nope. And he handed me a slide rule. He goes, here's your calculator. You can learn how to do it on this. I had to learn how to do math on a slide rule, and but you know what?
It made me better. For having done that. I don't use a slide rule today, obviously but it made me better at the time because it made me think about how, not only how to get to something, an answer, but whether it was the right answer or not. Right now, people just of all ages rely on. The computer said this or AI said that, so that must be the right answer, and they don't question it.
Absolutely. It's like going to the Encyclopedia Britannica, when I grew up, we had the full set of encyclopedias. And you know that they're outdated every year, so they like how to get new, and that's what I remember. And if I had to go look something up, I went to the encyclopedia.
That's, I go to my phone and say no, it's wrong, but and the other problem with that, using AI and all that, because I use ai, I write articles for a company, AI and everything else, but what does the AI do? It scours the internet for your answer, as well as I do, all those answers aren't correct.
That's right. So you really, it's that, that personal that you have to know how to cipher through all of the information you get. Yeah. So that's, but that I can have a whole separate podcast just for that. That's right. Okay. So what mistakes do growing businesses make when they focus too much on expansion and not enough on relationships?
That's a too. There's two pieces to that. There's the financial piece, there's the person piece. Too many companies, there's only one number that matters in business. When you're in expansion or anytime in your business, there's only one number that ever matters in your business. What is your net? Net?
How much money do you have after you paid your taxes? That's it. Now, bottom line. Bottom line, when you're growing a business, when you're scaling a business, you have to have. Your revenue, your EBITDA, and your net, they all need to go in a similar trajectory. If they're not going, if you hypergrowth a business and your EBITDA drops off a cliff, you're gonna run outta money.
Unless you got a big backer or something like that, you are, you're gonna run outta debt and it can be catastrophic, right? It's the same thing with net. You can see, you can fool yourself with cashflow and not be making any money. That's a slower death, but it's a death nonetheless.
And then the other pieces to the people piece, again, if you have the wrong people in place, you will limit how much you can grow a business. It's that simple. So the relationships with not only your people, but your vendors and your customers are uber important, like super duper important, right.
Because there's gonna come a time in business where you're going to need, you're gonna have an ask of somebody, whether it's your employees need to put in a little extra without some extra pay because you're going through a rough patch. Or if it's a vendor that you need to ask them to go 45 or 60 days instead of 30 days.
Or if it's a customer that you have, have to go in there. Resell the value of what you do for them or whatever it is, the relationship piece. Those three relationships are critically important. And I don't think, me personally especially when I was in, in a rank and file sales role many years ago, I didn't spend enough time that I wasn't dealing with vendors or other employees at the time.
But the customers, I'm a hunter by nature. I like to go out and find new business. I'm not a great. Customer relationship person, because I don't like to go and commits. I don't want to go hang at the bar. I don't want to go to ball games. I don't wanna do any of that stuff. So I would, I, years ago I worked for a company.
I got called into the regional office in Charlotte, North Carolina. And I come in and the vice president says quick, it was like a secret thing, quick come down here to my office. I'm like, oh, okay. I go in this office. Close the door. I close the door and he pulls out my expense reports and I'm thinking, oh boy.
I do everything by the book, and he pulls 'em out. He spreads 'em out on the desk and he goes I need you to explain this to me. And I go what a, his name was Larry. I'm like, what? Larry, what? What? What's the problem? He goes, you don't spend nearly enough money. You gotta stay, start with we have a budget.
We're gonna lose that budget if you don't start spending money. You gotta take people out the ball games and you gotta do this and go play golf and buy 'em presents and all this other stuff. And I was like oh, okay. But but those things are critically important, those three relationships very important.
And then the other relationship that people often overlook, again, just my opinion, but is the relationship that you have with yourself as you grow. If you're not growing as a person, as you grow your business, you're gonna have some rough spots along the roof. You need to be able, in my opinion, a person needs to be able to develop themselves at the same time as they grow a business and develop other people within their organization.
So the person that's thinks they know it all and they're done learning stuff. They're toast, in my opinion. So a absolutely you have to be confident in yourself. And there's a fine line between confident and arrogant. Yeah. And you can't cross that line, but yet be confident in yourself.
And what does that mean? That means I've got more to learn. But I'm confident in what I know so I can take it to the next level. When I get to that next level, I can then take it to the next level. That's right. I can go so on, but I can't cross that line to become so arrogant saying I don't need you.
Yeah. I know everything, yeah. Okay. How can entrepreneurs continue building meaningful connections even when their schedules become overwhelming? That's another really good question. Look, if you spend, I'm one of those people that I have I, it's not a set time on my calendar, but I have set things that I do every day, and one of those is connecting with other people, right?
During the day, I usually take 15 or 20 minutes to go through my phone and pick out somebody that I haven't spoken to in a long time. Just call 'em out of the blue and say, Hey, I was thinking about you and I wanna see how you're doing. And that's it. And they're like, oh, you wanna set up a call?
No, I just call to see how you're doing. And so the good news is when you do that, when you adopt that style of, putting that time in your schedule. 'cause here's the thing. We're all very busy. I'm extremely busy, right? I try to manage part of my own calendar. I have my assistant, Julie, she's putting stuff on my calendar all the time, and so I'm busy, and then my wife throws stuff on my calendar that I don't know about, that she calls me up and says, Hey, at 20 minutes we gotta go do this or that, and the other thing, whatever.
And it's, it can become it can look daunting. But here's the thing. I guarantee you. Everybody on planet Earth can find 15 to 30 minutes of their day that they just waste time that they could use that for connecting with other people. I'll give you an example. I am now banned from going on TikTok because I follow this channel of these gorillas, these silverback gorillas, right?
And I, these little gorillas are hilarious. They climb all over. The dad, they pull his ears, they poke 'em in the nose. All this it's hilarious. And I start watching them and the next thing I know. 30 minutes is gone 15 minutes, hour later. Yeah. So if I can watch a gorilla I'm guilty as that.
Same way. Same way. Yeah. We're, we all are. So if I can waste a half an hour watching a gorilla, I can certainly take, find a way to put a half an hour in my schedule to, to connect with either old people that you know, or people I know that I've lost touch with temporarily or. Current people that I need to contact or reach out to people that I don't know yet and introduce myself.
That's it. Yeah. Yeah. I, a lot of my clients when they, I tell 'em that LinkedIn obviously is a business end of social media, and they want to reach out to people. They want to tell them what they do and everything. I said, no, stop. Stop. If you wanna reach out to somebody, reach out to them.
Don't sell. You have to bring some value to that relationship. That's right. And cut an article out, do something, say, look, I was just thinking of you when I read this. And do that three or four times after they get used to you. Then say, you know what? I would be really interested in a cup of coffee.
Would you like to do it virtually or in person? Something like that. But that's way down the line. Yeah. So you have to do things in a certain pace. Okay, so let's bring this podcast full circle, even though we can probably talk for the next two hours. If a listener is currently facing a major obstacle in their business, what relationship building step could mo help them move forward?
The not so obvious answer. Is that if you are having a struggle in your business, the best use of your time would be take the knowledge that you know and go help somebody else, find somebody else who's having some kind of issue that you've solved and go and help them. Or you mentioned before you're working with some young some young folks, some high school kids.
Go find some young people that have minds that wanna learn something and help them. I'm a big believer in whatever you want to call it, karma. What goes around, comes around, all these kinds of things. Yes, you need to look, if you're having an issue, you gotta find a way, connect with some people that can help you solve that issue.
But the best way to deal with that, in my opinion, is instead of focusing on your problem and what's gone wrong. Take the things that have gone right, that that are, that you have a knowledge base on, and go find somebody who's having a problem with that and help them. Very good. Very good.
Very good. Scott, this was great. You are a great guest, but if somebody wanted to contact you, to be mentored by you, to have your services or just to reach out and say hello, what's the best way that they can contact you? They can call me up, I answer my phone. If I don't answer my phone, I'll call 'em back.
They can call me, they can email me or they can visit my website, whatever. Best way is to just call me or text me and I'm, my phone number if you want me to give it is 7 3 2 area code 9 9 1 3000. That's my cell. And you can call that number. If I don't answer it, I'll call you back.
Outstanding. Very good. This conversation is a reminder that growth doesn't happen alone. Behind every successful business is a network of people who provide advice, support, perspective, and opportunity along the way. Take one step this week, reach out to someone in your network you trust, and start a real conversation.
Sometimes a fresh perspective from the right person can change everything. If you found value in today's episode, be sure to like, follow and subscribe to Networking Unleashed, building Profitable Connections, so you keep getting the best insights on networking and communication and share this episode with someone who's building a business and could benefit from the power of strong relationships.
If you'd help strengthen your communication and building connections that lead to opportunity, visit michaelaforman.com to learn how I work with professionals, teams, and organizations. So until next time, stay resilient, stay connected, and keep building relationships that move your business forward.
Scott, again, thank you for coming on a podcast. You're a great guest. Thank you very much. I really appreciate the opportunity. I, and I really enjoyed our conversation.
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A huge thank you to our guests for sharing such incredible insights today, and of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in and spending your time with us. If you're interested in my digital courses being coached or having me come and talk to your company, just go to MichaelAForman.com and fill out the request form.
Remember, networking isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. So take what you've learned today, get out there and make some meaningful connections. If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a review. Share it with someone who could use a little networking inspiration.
Let's keep the conversation going. You can find me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my website michaelaforman.com/podcast.
Michael is a business networking expert specializing in enhancing professionals' networking and communication skills to drive profitability. As a leading authority in this field, he is highly sought after for his dynamic presentations and workshops. His extensive experience has consistently led to significant improvements in corporate profitability by empowering individuals and organizations to connect more effectively and efficiently.
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