Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections. An Interview with Kae Wagner and Michael A Forman
- mforman521
- Jul 1
- 17 min read
Welcome to Networking Unleashed, building Profitable Connections. The show where relationships don't just expand your network, they expand your influence. I'm your host, Michael Forman, and today we're talking about a shift many professionals want, but don't always understand. Moving from being present in the room to being someone actually remembered.
After the room empties, my guest has walked the path from professional to author, to leader, and along that journey, something interesting happens. A book doesn't just share ideas, it changes conversations. It changes how people approach you, what they ask you, and the kinds of opportunities that start finding you.
We're diving into how storytelling builds trust, how relationships, fuel business growth, and why leadership is often formed through conversations long before it's recognized by title. If you want your connections to carry more meaning, and your voice to carry more influence, you're in the right place.
So I'd like to welcome to my podcast. Kay. Kay. I've been really waiting for this podcast because I'm very interested in what you have to say. But why don't you give us just a click notes of how you got where you are today. Thank you, Michael. It's a privilege and an honor to be here with you today. And first of all, I wanna thank you for your service, my Honor.
Hi. How I got here today? Yes, we're gonna do the Cliff notes, the short version. I've been in business for quite some time, and all that time I've been a writer. I've actually been a writer since I was a kid. And I, in my business, north Star Marketing, I very early on, became keenly aware of the value of a book, and we'll get into that story.
But I'll tell you about two books that I wrote early on that literally made me millions. Not in the way that you might suspect or expect, but in a very powerful way that I think your audience will appreciate and may learn a few tips from. But I'm an entrepreneur at heart. Always looking for the opportunity to grow the business, to grow through personal and professional development and really I'm also a teacher at heart.
I love helping people learn. I love to help people move into the next phase to the next level of what is really their next growth phase, if you will. Those are the things that make my heart hum, the things that make me happy. Sounds wonderful. That really does sound great. All right, so let's get into it.
How does becoming an author change the way people approach you, and how should you intentionally use that shift in your networking? That is such a great question Michael, and the shift is incredible. So when I was early on in my business in North Star Marketing, I and because I've always been a writer, I decided it was a great idea to write a book.
And my subject matter has always been marketing. I'm a quote unquote marketing expert for authors now and also for business owners and C-suite executives. But I, my first book came to me when I realized that the CEOs and the top level executives that I was working with, the clients that our agency had.
Did not really understand marketing. They knew it was something out there related to getting their products in the market, but what they really wanted was to get the sale. Could we just get the sale? I don't know what this marketing stuff is, could we just get to the sale? So one day I realized I was working with a CEO, very large food company, and he said to me, he said, so what is it with this marketing stuff anyway?
And I'm like. Okay, so you don't really get marketing. It's no, I don't know. So that day after my staff left, I was at the office and I thought, I think I see a pattern here. I see something that's common in the marketplace. It's a problem. CEOs, top level executives don't understand marketing.
They understand sales. 'cause that has a dollar sign at the beginning of the word, but they don't understand the role of marketing and branding play. So I set about to educate my clients and that day after my staff left was quiet, I sat down and I wrote out the 10 power principles of marketing. And those power principles of marketing then became something that I taught to every client that we worked with.
And those clients then shared them with other CEOs, with other small business owners, with other influencers. Then I began getting speaking engagements and was on the stage and then duh, it was time for the book. So I did it backwards. I didn't do the book, I did the book after, but I took time and every Friday for three months, every Friday morning for three months for three, about three or four hours, I sat down and I worked on the book.
So I got the first book out, the Power Principles Marketing. I self-published it and that was before, just shortly before KDP. So I self-published it the hard way. And I have a picture of me and my staff putting books in boxes to send to our list to mail to our list of CEOs and business owners. That book got a lot of attention.
And the subsequent book, which was titled The CEO's Little Back Little Black Book on branding, got a lot of attention. It got an international design award and the speaking engagements, the book were like a golden ticket. And I would speak to a group of business owners and about three weeks later, a month later, I get a phone call from the.
The VP of marketing saying, CEO heard you speak, wants us to work with you, and then we signed up marketing projects and campaigns and relationships and. It was amazing. That's how it all begins. That's, yeah, that's how it all begins. And you did it actually you say you did it in reverse order, but actually that's the way that it should happen.
I'm a professional speaker and everybody thinks oh, you write a book first. That'll get you to credibility, and then you can go on stages when actually. No it's not. The book really doesn't, I use my first book, the networking book, almost like a business card. And I don't even I don't charge for it unless they buy it on Amazon.
But you did it the right way. So don't think you did it in reverse order. You did it, you did pretty well. Okay. Thank you by default as I seize them. Okay.
During your author's journey, what relationship proved most valuable to your growth and what did that connection matter more than others?
Say the first part of that question again? During your author's journey. Okay. During my author's journey, what relationship prove most valuable to your growth and why did that connection matter more than others? So my author's journey started early. It started with the two books that I just described.
They were nonfiction books, and I think the relationship that mattered the most in that phase, in that time was through the CEO peer group. I was in a CEO peer group at that time, and the leader of our CEO peer group was connected around the country through their network. So that was the Vistage Group, if you're familiar with them.
It was that relationship with him and his belief in me and in the work and the content that I was delivering. The persona that I have on stage, the ability to have a presence on stage, and as you said at the beginning, to be memorable after. But his belief in me, I think was probably the most important thing.
Because when you start, when you have material that is not tested, when you're in a speaking format and you're testing different things sometimes it's hard. Sometimes you fall flat on your face and you always need someone to pick you up. And he was often the guy who picked me up. Everybody needs that one person that they can always turn to, but is always there, hook, line, and sinker without even thinking they're there.
So you're very fortunate that you have that person. Many professionals want visibility. What's the difference between attention and influence? And when you're building when you're building relationships? So interesting question, attention and influence. Now, if you're familiar with Dr. Robert Cialdini, he is the godfather of influence and he has the seven rules of persuasion and influence.
And so there's a science behind influence. There's a science behind how you go about creating. Presence, charisma reciprocity all the laws of influence that are like physical laws of gravity, right? They are real. They're ethereal, but they're real. They actually work. They impact relationships and connections and networks.
Attention is what is given. Influence is what you design and actually create. So like Dr. Cialdini's work, if you study the science and all influencers, whether they call themselves influencers or are by influ, who or are influencers, because they earn the right to be because of their work, their expertise, their experience would do well to study those laws because.
The laws that Dr. Cialdini discovered and then packaged will guide people. And I would say Michael too, especially to younger parts of your audience, that these laws of influence are timeless. They bring wisdom that is. Lasting. And so to be able to understand them and then implement them is a valuable, extremely valuable way to up your influence.
Not in a manipulation, but in an understanding of the way that the laws work. Very interesting. Very interesting. As your business grew. How did you decide which relationships to invest in more time? In which, and let me, lemme try that again because I misread that completely. As your business grew, how did you decide which relationships to invest more time in and which ones to release lease?
Wow, that is a loaded question. Yeah, it is. I have to say, Michael, especially loaded question for me, because I was a single mother of two divorced, had a new business that was growing like fire wildfire and I had some really tough, hard decisions to make. Related to I was speaking, I was on the road, I had clients, I was on the road, I was flying, I was doing crazy things like that.
All things that are great things to grow a business, but as a mother creates some real considerations. So one of my criteria at that time as things were growing was that. I would not be away overnight unless I absolutely had to. And so in some ways that may have been detrimental in terms of, I was very careful about the conferences that I would go to if I wasn't speaking there.
I was very careful about. Those kinds of opportunities that might have opened doors or might have created a broader network. My consideration was my kids, right? My kids and the business. And balancing that tension, if you will was not easy. It was a difficult time. I made some difficult decisions, but I learned the 10, 10 10 rule and you wanna know what the 10, 10, 10 rule is?
Sure. So making decisions, I look at who is most impacted by this decision and what will that impact be like on them in 10 days, in 10 months, and in 10 years. So sometimes when I had to say no to a client because of a consideration for my family, my kids, I knew that in 10 days the client wouldn't care.
In 10 months, the client wouldn't care. And in 10 years it certainly, the client would never even remember it. And so that became a really good guiding point for me was to keep that longer term perspective about. Where the impact of my decisions really landed. Yeah, I I went through almost the same thing, but when I became a professional speaker and I started going on stages and everything else, I did that later in life.
I did it after my kids were already married off, so that kind of opened up that time for me. But I still am cognizant of the time because my wife is still home. So I'm not gonna go off for every other week or every other day because I don't wanna spend time with my wife. So I make that same type of of decision judging how much time I spend away I do.
Okay. What networking habits, separate leaders who attract opportunities from those who constantly chase them.
Yeah, so this is really interesting in the age of Zoom, right? What I am teaching authors now who are on their author journey is I'm teaching them about visibility. You need visibility to be successful, you need visibility for attracting clients and sales. You need visibility for AI to build a digital footprint for you so that you're found right?
Because if you're not visible, you're not viable. But here's what I also know to be true. The next step after visibility is proximity. And proximity is the most powerful. Now you are on stage as a professional speaker. You have proximity to an audience. When we are on Zoom, the virtual proximity is of an entirely different sort.
It has an entirely different nature to it. You don't rub elbows with someone at the back of the room or down the hall. You don't have that opportunity to wait in line to speak to somebody. You have a completely different set of rules, shall we say? Some of the basics are all the same, of course. But what I'm really studying and working with authors now is how do you begin to create proximity in the virtual age and in the age of ai?
And proximity becomes so important in the age of AI because there is so much fakery and proximity. Brings us together. We are rubbing elbows. We are getting to know people in a different way, in a way that engages vulnerability and authenticity, getting to know each other at a deeper level. And so it's a very interesting construct to think about, how do I get to know you, Michael, when you are a square on the screen?
And I am in an abstract place. And yet we have probably many things to talk about and to connect on, and also to share, to have a connection, to be part of a network, to be able to help each other further. Your work. My work. And yet, we are two squares on a screen. Absolutely. And you brought AI into it, and that's all part of Zoom because AI does the minutiae, the small work, the everything else.
One thing it can't replace or can't perform is the emotion behind each person. So as you said. I'm talking to a screen, I'm not talking to a room and I can't pick up, I can't pick up your vibe. I can't pick up the vibe of the room. And that's a huge thing because I have to feel that because that's what keeps me, that's what gets me pumped and everything else.
So I pick up the vibe of the room, but I don't have any of that. I have you as a small square. On a Zoom call, and I have to remember, a, you're still a person behind the square, so I have to figure out how can I make up for some of that. But AI can't do that because it, it's void of all emotion. So I can't use it.
So it's all up to me. It's all up to the person. And that's one thing that AI will never replace the person. Yes. Make them really close to it because they look pretty good, but they can't replace us. Okay. And to that point, Michael, the, what we need to do is we need to be really cognizant of our energy.
Like when we are in the square, right? We need to have this energy and presence that's bigger than the square. We need to use all of our voice, we use, need to use everything, that we can't because we're in the square, not on the stage. Absolutely. Right behind you. Okay. What role does storytelling play in helping people trust you faster when they first meet you?
Storytelling is the most important skill, a professional and executive and owner. A CEO can learn storytelling because storytelling is as old as the caveman. The caveman did it with grunts and signals and all of that little hieroglyphics in the cave wall. But storytelling is as old as man goes back to Adam and Eve, if you will, and storytelling connects in a different part of our brain and it triggers emotion, and emotion stays with us, right?
How I felt about you and your speaking is more important and goes deeper than the words that you said. Now, there will be words that you say that I will remember because you are a professional and you have crafted them that way, but it's the emotion that's going to carry the connection after that. And so storytelling is the emotional thread that we share.
Storytelling is memorable. It's engaging. It transports us. If I were to say to your audience. Okay, I wanna tell you a story. Sit back and relax. The brain would be washed with this a moment of receptivity. A moment when the heart opens and the brain is open to hearing, and that act alone loan allows things to imprint.
And so storytelling becomes an art. It becomes a science. It becomes the way that an owner, a CEO, an author, gets to the heart and connects the heart and the brain. The heart and the head. Storytelling, to me, is a skill and a talent. Right? You have to practice practice performing, because if you go out there and you tell a story and you're monotone and you just you're not gonna get your point across.
You have to add a little life to it. When I, some of my clients, when I tell them to, okay, what's your 32nd elevator pitch? They'll say, oh my God I have it. It's perfect. I say, good. Now let's shrink it down to 10 seconds. And they freak out. They freak out. Whatcha talking about?
Look, just trust me. So we get it down to 10 seconds. I said, okay, it's perfect. Now throw it out. They say that's the part where they really love you, right? And they go, whatcha talking about? I said, look, if you're going to a Chamber of Commerce or a networking meeting or something like that, and you have 30 seconds to say what you are, what you do, is that enough time for you to truly say what you are and what you do?
No. Give your name, give your company's name, whatever, and give them a feeling that some of your clients. Had, right? So if you just, it say, look, I'm Michael Foreman, I'm a professional speaker, I'm an executive business coach, and I help people make money, and they feel wonderful about it. Yeah. All of a sudden all the eyes are gonna be on me.
And how did you do it? See me after. And that's really it. I don't go into everything that I do. So it's all how you do it, but the storytelling is so very important. It's a skill and a talent, and you have to nudge it every once in a while. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yeah. For someone early in their career, what is one relationship they should intentionally seek that most people overlook?
One relationship they should seek. So it's not the smartest guy in the room that you wanna buddy up to. It's really the guy, the male or female man or woman who is the go-to guy. Like we have all of our org charts, right? We have all of the titles, but who's the real go-to guy? That's the guy you wanna know the person who has this seemingly endless list of contacts of people they know of.
Oh yeah, I know somebody you should talk to. That's the guy you wanna know. And also that's the guy you wanna become. The person who is connected for purpose, the person who shares connections, who gives way more than they get, but who knows who to ask and how to ask for themselves and for someone else.
Absolutely. I couldn't have said it better myself. You are spot on with that exact description. So lemme just bring this podcast full circle. And if a listener wants to build both leadership presence and meaningful connections in the next 90 days, what one networking behavior would create the biggest change?
Other than having you really help them craft their elevator speech, I'd say that might be the first one. No, for authors, more so than people who want to be on stages. But for authors, I would say learn to be bold in your promotional mindset. This is true for all people. Be bold in promoting yourself in knowing what your success is, based on what your expertise is, based on and beyond that, what you are distinctive.
Let me tell you a story, Michael. It's a real short one. Okay. So I have a friend years ago she was going to an interview for being a, an attendant, an airline attendant. And so there's this mass call, right? And all these people are waiting around. They call them in individually. So she knows that she has to be distinctive, right?
She has to stand out, stand up, and stand out. So she goes in the room, they go through the interview, and at the end they're like, so what's unusual about you? And she's thinking to herself, oh my gosh, should I do this? Really? And so she says I'm probably the only person here who knows how to yodel.
And they laughed and they said, would you yodel for us? And she did. And they're like, okay, you are hired. You showed courage, you showed humor. You were brave. You are hired. You have the characteristics that we want. Yesterday, literally, I had the son of a colleague who was looking for a job, get on Zoom with me.
He said, I know I have a problem. I speak in a monotone. He said, I don't know what to do about it. I don't know what to say to these people. I'm trying to get a job and I just wanna get a job. So we talked about a lot of things. I gave him tips, and at the end I told him the yodel story. And I said to him, at the end of every interview, they're gonna say to you, so do you have any more questions?
And what I want you to do is to say, no, you've answered all my questions, but here's one thing you should know about me that we didn't talk about. And then I want you to do your yodel. Whatever your yodel is. Whatever you have that's distinctive. You do that so that you're memorable so that they remember you.
He's the guy who did the X. That's what we all want. That's what every author needs. That's what every speaker needs. He's the guy, she's the woman who x something distinctive. And it may be as crazy as yodeling, right? But it's distinctive. Absolutely learn that. Use that perfect that. That was great advice.
That was great advice, because everybody wants to stick out, yes. Nobody wants to be part of the ocean, they wanna be part of the wave. Yes. So it's absolutely right. Kay, this was fantastic. You are Mike. Great podcast guest. Listen, thank you. If somebody wanted to contact you, to be a ment, to be mentored by you, to be coached by you or to get your services.
What's the best way for them to do it? The best way for everyone to get into our world, into my world is to go to www.boldauthorsnetwork.com. We hold promo hour, which is all about marketing every Monday from four to 5:00 PM Eastern. It's a free hour where people come and we talk about all things marketing.
We focus in this hour. On authors and marketing in the author world for the author's journey so that people, IE authors who hate marketing learn to love it. That's great. That is wonderful. Listen, this conversation reminds us that leadership is rarely announced. It's recognized. It usually. And it's usually recognized through consistent conversations, genuine relationships, and the trust you build over time.
If some, if something you heard today sparked an idea, act on it this week. Reach out to someone, share a story, or share a conversation that moves the relationship forward. Influence grows through small, intentional moments. And if you found value in this episode, sure you like, follow and subscribe. To networking unleashed, building profitable connections.
So you continue getting practical insight on networking and communication. Share this episode with someone ready to step into a stronger professional presence. If you want help strengthen your communication, leadership presence, or the way you build relationships, visit michael a foreman.com to learn how I work with professionals.
Teams and organizations. So until next time, show up consistently sh speak with purpose and build connections that make people remember you. Kae. Again, thank you for coming on my podcast. Thank you, Michael. It was a pleasure.
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A huge thank you to our guests for sharing such incredible insights today, and of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in and spending your time with us. If you're interested in my digital courses being coached or having me come and talk to your company, just go to MichaelAForman.com and fill out the request form.
Remember, networking isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. So take what you've learned today, get out there and make some meaningful connections. If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a review. Share it with someone who could use a little networking inspiration.
Let's keep the conversation going. You can find me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my website michaelaforman.com/podcast.
Michael is a business networking expert specializing in enhancing professionals' networking and communication skills to drive profitability. As a leading authority in this field, he is highly sought after for his dynamic presentations and workshops. His extensive experience has consistently led to significant improvements in corporate profitability by empowering individuals and organizations to connect more effectively and efficiently.
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