Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections. An Interview with Neil Thubron and Michael A Forman
- mforman521
- Jun 29
- 16 min read
Welcome to Networking Unleashed, building Profitable Connections. The show where conversations don't just connect people, they create real business results. I'm your host, Michael Forman. Today we're bringing together four areas, every professional deals with every day, networking, communication, marketing, and sales.
Most people treat these as separate skills, but reality, they all come together in one place. The conversation, my guest today understands how these pieces fit. We're talking about, excuse me, what happens in those first few minutes when you meet someone, how your message is shaped before you ever speak, and why some conversations naturally lead to opportunity while others go nowhere.
If you've ever had a great interaction that didn't turn into anything. Or wondered how to guide the conversation. Store's real results out sounding like you're selling. This is for you. So let's get into it. I'd like to welcome to the podcast today, Neil. Neil Thubron. I would, I am very interested in what you have to say because what you talk about is exactly what I have been.
Preaching for the last four years. So Neil, welcome to the podcast and just welcome. No, thanks Michael. Great to be here and thanks for everything you are doing and getting this message out as well. 'cause it's such an important topic to cover. 'Cause as you say it's never about selling.
It's never about it's about how you build that connection. Yeah it is. And why don't you give us a little bit of a cliff note, so to speak, of how you got where you are today. So professionally, how I got where I am today. I started working for a large IT corporate back in the eighties and I was fixing golf ball typewriters.
That was my very first job. Very quickly moved into sales. 'cause I realized I wasn't great at fixing things. I was better at fixing people. So I've been in sales pretty much all my career since the, since about 1991. In sales, in account management, in running sales teams. And the last corporate job I had.
Was running a sales organization for Europe for a large US IT company where I had 38 countries and 450 salespeople. And in the last 11 years I've been running my own business. I've always done a lot of coaching and mentoring with leaders and individuals and as well as keynote speaking based around the extreme sports activities that I do.
And I have a sales training business as as well. That's kind of me in a nutshell, is I now work for myself. I do my own thing and I help other people achieve what they wanna achieve. It sounds like you finally found what you've meant to do, right? So I think this is what you've meant to do.
Okay, so lemme start. Where does networking and sales begin? Or are they actually the same conversation done differently? I don't believe that you can sell anything to, you can't sell something to some to, to somebody who doesn't wanna buy it. So you've got the, you the only way you can be successful in selling or successful in any way you want to build a relationship with someone.
Is by building that connection. And at the end of the day, business is human to human, whether it's selling, whether it's whether you're trying to get a job. So you're selling yourself, whether it's trying to influence people through leadership. So the skills you need to be able to build relationships in networking.
So people you might not have met before or people that that you might be meeting on a high, on a volume. The, exactly the same human skills you need when you are selling. So I think there is an intersection there between networking skills and selling skills. What would you say, let's say you go into a networking event and the fir, what's the first thing that you do?
That's a great question actually. And 'cause there's so many different types of networking events these days, isn't there? There's physical ones, which, and then there's online ones and then there's no, that, that's what I'm talking about. It's a physical event. You walk through the doors, 300 people, what do you do?
So the first thing I typically do is I stand and look and scan a room, and I ju I'm looking, I'm, you, 'cause you've got all these senses, so use all the senses. I'm listening I'm getting a feel for the room. I always feel you when you come to an event as well, you almost have to put on that not, it's not a costume, but.
A mindset of confidence. So you, there's a physiology that has, that you have to make people want to come and talk to you or for, to accept a conversation when you go to them. So it's walking in with that air of confidence in looking around, not posi, not positioning yourself in a corner somewhere, but actually working out where do you want to go?
What do you wanna. 'Cause it's easy to get trapped somewhere when you go to a networking event. So try and work out where's a good place for me to be so that I can engage in conversations, but also people can see me and come to me. Okay, good. So I think that's probably the first thing I do.
Okay. Why do so many professionals struggle to turn good conversations into real business opportunities? Okay. Yeah, I think that's a pretty straightforward one actually, Michael, I think if you want to turn a conversation into a business opportunity, it's got to be about the other person. You've gotta be curious in them, you've gotta be interested in what's important to them.
You've gotta be asking open questions. It's if you start talking about you. You've lost the conversation. It's gotta all be about them and understanding them and their needs. And because you sell yourself the best salespeople only ever ask questions and but not in a robotic way, in a, I'm curious about you.
I'm really interested in you. And interest doesn't, isn't just the questions, it's the eye contact, it's the physiology, it's the matching and mirroring of the body positions as well. So you can build that connection through the subtle, unconscious part of the mind as well as through the conscious mind, which is the question.
No, I think that's the key is being curious and being interested in the person you're talking to is the way you can turn a conversation into a business opportunity. They say that if you talk more than 30% of the conversation, you lost. Yeah, because that means that, yeah, you have to listen. I go to a ton of networking events and everything else, and I use something called FORM, family Occupation, recreation.
And there's a certain message. And what I do is I listen. I listened to the other person and I ask them about family where they do, they like to go boating, skiing, play baseball, whatever the case may be, and have them talk about themselves because you and I both know people love to talk about themselves and afterwards you you direct them to what they do for a living. And then at the end of the conversation, it's not a conversation so far because you really haven't talked, right? But you say, you know something, I like you. I like what you do for a living. How can I make you more successful? How can I be a good referral source for you?
And if I did my job correctly, they'll say, Michael, I don't even know what tell you do yet, and you're trying to make me more successful. So that's the arena you want to get yourself into. You want to get the other person to talk about themselves and you're in. Yeah. I love the idea of the form. I love that acronym.
That makes lots of sense. And I think the other thing to be, to recognize is if you are at an event and someone else is at an event, there's a reason they're giving up their time to be there. There's something they're hoping to get out of being at that event. And wouldn't it be useful to try and understand what the why they're investing those valuable precious hours of their time in being at the same event as you are at?
Absolutely. They'll walk away from the conversation saying, that was a great conversation and you really didn't talk at all. Yeah. But they'll remember it that way all yeah. What is the biggest communication mistake people make in the first few minutes of meeting someone new? I think we've just talked about it.
They talk too much. Yeah, absolutely. That was the first thing that I figured out that I was doing wrong. Was I walked in and I started talking. Yeah. When I should have walked in and started listening. So that was the first, yeah. Yeah. How does marketing influence networking before a conversation even begins?
Cool. That's a good question. I, I guess there's two, there's a number of, I guess when you're talking marketing, there's marketing prior to a networking event, so which might be the reason that everybody's in the room is for a particular conversation around a particular topic. But then there's brand marketing in personal brand marketing and this is something I've done and I do reasonably regularly if I'm going to network.
Is it. Find out who's going and connect with them a long way in advance so that there's a brand recognition, and work at your brand on, the LinkedIn on the internet, whatever. It's, whatever it is you're using. So that's marketing you and that will influence the conversation at the event, especially if you've got opinions about topics that are relevant at the event.
So you might have written about topics. So I think that helps. But then the actual framing of the event itself, the marketing around that I'm sure will shape the conversation too. Yeah, absolutely. And if you want to use LinkedIn as an example I always reach out to people and say, Hey, you're going to this expo or that expo say, yeah, sure, yes I am.
Great, I can't wait to meet you because I want go because of X, Y, Z. I'm going 'cause of this. Yeah. Oh great. I can't wait to see you, and I'll leave it at that. And then when I bump into them. I'll not bump into them because I'll make sure that I meet them. Yeah. But I'll bump into them. I'll say, Hey, how you doing?
I'm Michael. Hey, and it's like we already know each other. Yeah. So it works out perfect. Yeah. I love that. What makes someone instantly more memorable in a conversation without trying to impress?
So there's a, there's this kind of unspoken. A thing called charisma and which is like a, an air of confidence and sa sage nurse, being a sage of, and I think that what makes someone memorable is they may have said one sentence, but they'd listened and that sentence made real lots of sense and.
Was a was something that is, that people will remember because it really resonated. But charisma comes from physiology. How are you using your body? How are you using your eyes, your and your posture the tone of your voice and the pace of your voice. So one of the things that people who've got a lot of charisma do.
They move through a room at their pace, they don't rush. You never see someone who's got charisma, rushing. They have a certain, yeah, a certain slow pace about them. That means they're doing it in their, and I think that's what makes people memorable is if they've got that. I guess so that's one thing I'd say, Chris.
But the other thing is wear something crazy as well, but people wearing bow ties or a, a Hawaiian shirt. Or braces, that's part of brand, but it does make you memorable. Absolutely. It definitely does. And I, I wanna tell you that I've used that once at all. I can have a few blazers that are just so outta control that people always comment on it and I say, okay, that's good, because they'll remember me, but I want them to remember me.
Over the clothing. I don't wanna say, oh, that's the guy with the blazer. Oh no, that's Michael with the blazer. Yeah. Okay. Okay. But that's where my confidence has to come in and I have to weigh being confident and conceded. So I have to make sure more confident. And I think there's, that, there's a confidence in what you're saying.
And that it carries weight so that what you're saying has some weight behind it, because it might be because of experience, it might be 'cause of just you are well read and you understand the topic and you're not, just trying to say something for the sake of saying it and looking like you've got an opinion when actually you don't.
You're just saying it to try and make it look like you have. 'Cause usually if somebody asks you a follow up question to that and you don't know what you're talking, it could be very embarrassing. Very embarrassing. Exactly. Yeah. Very point. Yeah. Where do professionals unintentionally lose trust when they shift from connection to a business discussion?
Yeah it's basically when they are. They are trying to sell, they're going straight from, we're having a conversation, oh, this is what I do and this is, and this is the products we sell, or the features and benefits of the solution or service. So they leap to a sell. Rather than, because there should be a nice dance where it, you're asking questions, you're asking questions, oh, that's interesting.
Do you know I was working with a client the other week? So you have a story. But if it, so I think it's leaping to selling and talking about them and their products and services too quickly. That's where the connection gets broken. Yeah. I always say stories sell, if you give people facts and figures, they'll never remember it.
No. But a story will sell, but you can't get to that story without a whole lot before it, you can't just jump right into it. Yeah, one of my clients thought of that, and they'll say yeah, okay, goodbye. And move on to somebody else. So you have to get there slowly, but if you get there, then that'll work 100%.
How can someone guide a conversation towards opportunity without making it feel like a sales pitch? It comes back to asking the right questions. And funny enough, I teach this in my sales training, right? Because you have to be, one of the things I find interesting, I run an exercise in my sales training where I get people to sell someone a pen, the classic Wolf of Wall Street, but they can only sell with questions.
They can only sell the pen they've got in their hand, so it's no good asking questions about an expensive Mont Blanc pen and how that would be fantastic and what it would feel like having this amazing it pen in your hand if you've got a plastic Bic barrow. So the asking questions that guide someone towards.
So you, you've gotta have listened to their pain and their needs or their opportunities. And then by asking questions what would happen if, so you're guiding someone towards a conversation that might be linked to what you are trying to what you could, I'm not gonna say sell. How what you've got could help them address that pain or that opportunity.
You always want to, you don't wanna sell a product. You want to sell what they're going to get from the product, their feeling or the answer to their problem. You never wanna say, this is a pen and you need it. You need to write contracts. You have to say I can help you write contracts, how with this pen, something like that.
Yes, very much what role? Does listening play in both in networking and closing business?
I guess without listening, firstly, closing business is, and I get asked 'cause I run a sales training business. I get the phone call from the sales vp. I say, can you help me close more business? The answer is actually, let's go right back to the beginning of the conversation you had where you, the questions you were asking, how you were asking those questions, the value you were uncovering.
So I think, but if you don't listen to the answers and you are always thinking about the next question, rather than about the question that's relevant to what you've just heard you are never gonna really uncover what's important to that individual. One of the things I've learned, so I trained as a coach many years ago, and I've done lots and lots of different coaching courses over the years, is coaches are trained to ask great questions and then shut up and listen.
And not just listen to the words, but listen to the what's in between the words and what the person's telling you with all the other signals other than just the words. And I think that's a great skill for selling as well. Is 'cause you can't hear what someone's saying unless you are really focused on listening to 'em.
I've learned the same thing. But they call it active listening. Yeah. And because if you don't truly listen to them, that's why you're listening to them and you pause afterwards and then you respond, and you're not thinking about the next thing that you're gonna say. But you're thinking about how you're going to respond to that person and usually you're repeating some of what they said and say, okay, if I understand this correctly, X, Y, Z, and then you'll move into put active listening.
That's so important. I have it in every one of my presentations. Yeah. What they have to do. Yeah, absolutely. How can someone stay top of mind after a conversation without feeling repetitive or intrusive? Okay, so you mean, so once you've left the networking event and you are keeping in touch with some, okay.
So you go back and talk to them and not say the same thing. Okay. Oh, so in the same event? Same event. Okay. Yeah. Oh, that's a good question. I guess it depends what you've learned in the first part of the conversation. If you've learned something about them, the form you talked about, the family or the relationships, the I guess depending on what you've heard, then that will determine what question you might go back with.
And if you've been in a conference and you've been listening to a speaker, it might be. When we heard that speaker, what did you think about that? Given what you told me back at the last conversation you had? So if you can relate back to the last conversation, then a, it shows you were listening and it shows that it was relevant, right?
Absolutely. And that's so important because the other person will say, oh, they were listening to me. Yeah, they actually answered my question from way back when. Yes, that's very good advice. Okay, so we're gonna bring this podcast full circle. If a listener wants to improve their ability to turn conversation, conversations into revenue within the next 90 days, what's one habit?
They should start immediately. So turn an opportunity into turn conversations. Into revenue.
So one of the things I've learned over the years is you build those connections at events and it actually, what you're doing is building relationships and keeping that relationship going is one of the most important skills I think I've learned. Once. So you are, and the way you do that is by helping them address whatever it is they're addressing.
So you follow up basically so you make sure you're following up. So I guess the habit I would say is focus on how can I help as many people as possible in the next 90 days. And you're probably gonna be successful turning a conversation. Into closed business. Don't think about how much can I sell?
Think about how can I help, or how many people can I help? Or how many, how can I enhance this connection even more? One of the things I love to do when I've met, so even if it's the first time I've met someone is I've listened to 'em and, maybe I've got a business card or I've got some, is send them something.
Like a book, after our conversation I thought about this book that I've read recently and I just, I just thought you might find it useful. So that then enhances the relationship. Yeah that's, I had a a client he wasn't a client yet, but I had several conversations with him and I knew he was from Kentucky.
And we got this whole conversation, everything. After the conversation, I looked up and I said, Kentucky Bourbon. That is you know you have to drink Kentucky Bourbon if you're like over five years old. That you grew up with it. So what I did was I packaged it rather well because you're not supposed to send that through the mail.
But I did, and I, he, when he got it, he re, he replied to me, he goes, oh my God, you were listening. You remembered that how much I love Kentucky Bourbon. And a month and a half later, he became a client. But, it was all, it just, you had to listen to what they were saying in order to get the best.
Yeah. Yeah. And I love books, sending books through, because I, they're really easy to send through, but you can also put a message that this is why I think it's relevant to you, because of this conversation we had. Absolutely. Absolutely. Neil, this was great. I wanna tell you because I can probably come up with another 10 questions and have another podcast for two hours.
So this was absolutely great. But if somebody wanted to get hold of you either to hire you, consult with you, or just say hello. Yeah. How would they get a hold of you? And thank you. So I'm very active on LinkedIn so search for Neil Thubron on LinkedIn, 'cause I'm the only one there, there aren't any other thubron on LinkedIn.
And neil thubron.com is a, you can connect with me on there as well. So those are the best ways of connecting with me and I'd love to. Have a conversation with anybody who's found this interesting and useful. It's outstanding. Outstanding. This conversation is a reminder that business doesn't happen in isolation.
It happens through communication. The way you connect, listen, and express value determines whether a conversation ends with Nice to meet you or leads to something more. Take one step this week in your next conversation. Focus on understanding the other person more clearly before explaining what you do.
That shift alone can change the direction of the relationship. If you found value in today's episode, make sure you like, follow and subscribe to Networking Unleashed, building Profitable Connections. So you keep getting the best insights on networking and communication and share this episode with someone who wants their conversations to lead to real opportunities.
If you'd help strengthening your communication and turning connection into results. Visit michaelaforman.com to learn how I work with professionals, teams, and organizations. So until next time, communicate clearly, connect intentionally, and build conversations that actually go somewhere. Neil, I want to thank you again for coming on my podcast.
Thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you, Michael.
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A huge thank you to our guests for sharing such incredible insights today, and of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in and spending your time with us. If you're interested in my digital courses being coached or having me come and talk to your company, just go to MichaelAForman.com and fill out the request form.
Remember, networking isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. So take what you've learned today, get out there and make some meaningful connections. If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a review. Share it with someone who could use a little networking inspiration.
Let's keep the conversation going. You can find me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my website michaelaforman.com/podcast.
Michael is a business networking expert specializing in enhancing professionals' networking and communication skills to drive profitability. As a leading authority in this field, he is highly sought after for his dynamic presentations and workshops. His extensive experience has consistently led to significant improvements in corporate profitability by empowering individuals and organizations to connect more effectively and efficiently.
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