Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections. An Interview with Brandon Sherwood and Michael A Forman
- mforman521
- Oct 13
- 23 min read
Welcome back to Networking Unleashed, building Profitable Connections, where we don't just talk about networking, we rewire the way it's done. Today's episode is for anyone who's ever walked into a room full of name tags and fake smiles and thought, this ha, there has to be a better way. My guest is on a mission to replace performative handshakes and shallow chit chat with something far more powerful.
Human first networking. We're diving into what it means to build real relationships, why honesty and transparency aren't soft skills, they're smart strategies, and now niche and how niche networks might be. The shortcut to exponential growth. If you've ever been collecting contacts or we're not making connections, or you're tired of networking, that feels like speed dating other than real conversation.
This episode will help you reset the way you show up. Let's get into it. I apologize for me going get it out like that. But I have to tell you one thing, Brandon, before I introduce you. This is exactly. What I talk about, this is exactly what I do when I go on stages, when I do conferences or when I do workshops.
This what you're talking about is exactly what I'm talking about. So I'd like to introduce Brandon Sherwood to the podcast, and I have hope all my listeners are keeping their ears on because I think that this episode is really going to, gonna teach 'em a few things. Brandon, how are you and welcome to the podcast.
Thank you. Thank you, Michael. I'm doing well. Doing well. It's a balmy day in the summer in Utah. Okay. How about if you give us a little bit about your background? Yeah, so I have basically done two things in my life. I have sold RVs and I've bought teeth, which may sound really strange, not the RV part.
So I run a company that buys dental, scrap old crowns and bridges from dentists. And I've done that for a long time. And we have about 38 reps around the country that I manage. And on top of that. We've also just started a really cool company called Gladly Network that helps to build upon our mission to bless lives.
And with that, we're, we've created a, an employee PERC program that will help connect individuals from offices, employees, and really cool, innovative, and most importantly, impactful companies around the country. Okay. That sounds great. That really does. That sounds great. Okay, so I put together a few questions for you, and hopefully they were right in line with what you wanted to talk about, but you talk about human first networking.
What does that mean in practice and how does it challenge the way most people approach networking events today? I actually hate networking events. I I don't know if it's a little social anxiety or what it is, but if I walk into a room full of people, I'll stand in the corner and watch everybody until somebody comes up to me.
I just, I have a little anxiety about that. And so to me, human first, takes those networking events with, loads of people and trying to decide who's the most important person to talk to or who, how you can mutually help each other to. Lunches and personal personal meetings and calls and what, whatever it is that creates more humanity than a room full of people that are awkwardly trying to determine who can help them the most.
Okay. I understand where you're coming from with networking events, and I agree that's part of a social anxiety, so to speak. But if you, what I try to teach my clients and the places where I go is that if you go in with a plan. You don't just go in thinking like, oh, there's 300 people here.
Which way do I go first? If you go in thinking who you want to talk to, or better yet, you pick out those people and you don't go and expect to take 300 business cards, right? You go in, yeah, expect to take 15, maybe 20 business cards, but that means that you've created a relationship with those people.
And you can do a proper follow up. Follow up I believe is more important than meeting the people. Yeah. I think there's some, I think there's some planning and strategy involved too. I think just saying, Hey, I'm gonna go to any old networking event and and I'm gonna get something out of this.
Certainly that can happen. But I know for me and Utah, we have a really big entrepreneurial, network around here it's called the Silicon Slopes for a reason. There's a ton of tech companies. There's a lot of people who have done really well for themselves. And so when I see a networking event, the thing that I'm looking for is who's likely to be there, right?
Who? And then I can go in and I can make it more personal. I can find out that Todd's gonna be there. Todd works for X Company. And I'd really like to meet Todd. And so I'm going to either send him a note ahead of time. Hey, we're both going to this event. Let's link up. Or I'm going to at least find out something about him and set a goal to, to talk to him.
And maybe I do that with 10 or 15 or 20 people that I think are gonna be there or from companies that I'm interested in networking with. And so that preparation, I think is really important as well. It helps you to really focus on what. The purpose of the event is and then again it allows you to hit 'em ahead of time, potentially and get your name out there.
And then when you when you do introduce yourself, it's not completely cold, which is usually the awkward part. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you're right on, on the mark. When you say you have gone with a plan or going with thinking of who you want to attack, attack first but let's move on.
What's the biggest myth about networking that's still being taught, and why is it keeping people broke or disconnected? I. I think that the biggest myth is that you have to be a a social person or you have to be this extrovert to, to be able to network. And I think it keeps a lot of people from being able to go out and.
What networking is creating that network, creating those relationships. I've found, and I've managed a ton of salespeople over my life and I've found that some of the best salespeople I've ever managed, have been introverts. They don't get their jollies from talking to people.
They talk to people because that's how they make a living. And so they've learned the skills to be able to do that. And so if. If you're an introvert if you're a person that doesn't like to be in big crowds, if you're a person that doesn't like to put themselves out there and go talk to people that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't network.
We can do lots of different things. Again, with that preparation and that planning you can decide ahead of tape, Hey, I'm gonna go talk to this person. This is the purpose. And even though this may drain me a little bit. I can still do this. And I, again I think that there's lots of people out there who avoid networking events or avoid networking at all and anything that might say networking scares 'em to death.
Because they think, oh that's for those social butterflies. And that's not necessarily the case. That, that, that's absolutely true. I found that one of the biggest myths of networking is talking. When you go up and you just start, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, diary of the mouth and, people are looking around like, why?
What? I just I'm a firm believer in that when you walk up to a table or something else that you don't talk, you never talk. You wait for the conversation to come around to you. If it's a good fit for you. Then you either move on or you become part of the conversation. But that's just me and part of my teaching.
You've mentioned the awkwardness of traditional cocktail party networking. What should someone do differently the next time they walk into a room full of strangers? I think your your recommendation to to maybe keep your mouth a little tighter is probably really helpful.
Helpful, nice. When you walk in and and essentially announce yourself yeah. That, that creates some awkwardness. Part of the kinda the people first approach that I take to networking is looking at at every interaction through the lens of the person that you're communicating with.
It's not just me trying to get my message across or get some benefit out of this relationship. If I can take a step back and look and see how each person in that. That room, that cocktail party or whatever it is. If I can take that a step back and say, okay, this person, how can I help them? What can I do for them?
Then the network just happens, right? It becomes mutually beneficial because you had this mentality of I want to help this person. And it goes back to the lens that we look at through gladly and through, through other opportunities that we have, which is how do I bless this person's life, right?
How do I make this person's life better? And it. It hasn't failed me yet, that when I take that approach, it amplifies everything that I'm doing as well. I agree a thousand percent. It's called having a servant's heart. When you go into networking, what can you do for them and not look for something that they can do for you?
So if you're doing that and have to get into a conversation with them and without you even saying what you do, you come across with the same thing as like, how can I make you more successful? How can absolutely I be a good referral source for you? And when you do that, it just takes all the pressure off you.
It takes all the pressure off, you begin to enjoy yourself, which is the other half of this. And you start doing it and you start connecting. People say, oh, you know what you needed that, oh, this person is in need of that. I'm gonna put you two together. And, I make it a practice every week.
I do that with two people. I put them together and I back away. I don't expect anything in return, but I'm just connecting those two people. Yeah and because of that, you become the person. You become a person that people want. To be networked with that want people want to be connected with. I had a meeting with a guy that somebody, one of my mutual friends had connected us and we were talking about this friend and that's the way this guy is.
He's the type of guy that connects everyone around him and he has a huge network. And the guy I was meeting with said, I could just tell from the incident that I met him that this was a guy I needed to keep up with. This was a guy that was going to introduce me to a lot of different people.
It was going to be a positive experience, and he was going to help me as much as he could possibly help me. And that's the people we all want to connect to. We don't wanna connect people that it's ask. It's, Hey, I know this guy. I know this lady. They're doing something similar or maybe they could be of use to you.
Or even sometimes just, I think you really need to get to know this person. And. Yeah. Keeping everything within your network, all those connections, moving together is definitely the way to continue to build. Yeah. 'cause what goes around does come around. Absolutely. Because pretty soon that they're gonna say you know what, Michael introduced me to him. I think I should introduce Michael to X, y, z, somebody else. So it does come around. Yeah. Okay. You champion niche networks. How does narrowing your circle strategically lead to broader and more profitable opportunities?
It's really easy in life to look at and especially when you're starting a business or when you're starting this whole networking approach. It's really easy to look at the total addressable market, right? It, you hear, you watch Shark Tank and you hear, this is a billion dollar market.
And what that means is. There's this opportunity for all this stuff. But in reality when we look at networking, especially, yeah, I can go into this big room and I can have an idea. I'm gonna, I'm gonna talk to everyone, right? And everyone is a customer, which may be true, right? But what if I say, okay in my case, I've worked in dental cells for a long time.
I know that market, I know that industry. When I hear somebody say DDS or talk about dentistry it perks me up a little bit because I know that and so if I can go in and say, Hey, I'm gonna find anybody that might have anything to do with dentistry, let's target it to that, because we can have a conversation.
We're gonna know some of the same people, we're gonna speak the same language, right? And in doing that, instead of getting all this. Periphery that is really just distracting a lot of the times. We can hone in and target the network that we're really interested in and the people that can really help us, but also the people that we can really help.
Very good. Yes, that's exactly right. And you hit upon so many different little things that I agree with so much that I can't even, I, I don't have time to, to hit them, but you're a hundred percent correct. Okay. In the space that's often filled with inflated egos and polished persona, polished personas, why do.
Honestly, and Trent, why does honest honesty and transparency actually attract better co connections and clients? Boy, that was rough to get out. It seems like there's a lot of alliteration in there, right? Yeah. Tongue twisters. Yes. Yes. Yeah I am, I'm a guy that, that I feel like honesty and transparency is the best.
Honesty is the best policy or whatever, but it really is what attracts people. I, and maybe this is just personal preference. I know that there's a lot of people who like the fluff and the, and, fanboying over somebody that has all this polish. That's not me. I'd rather somebody walk up to me and say hey.
I just am here because my boss told me I needed to be here and it was a free lunch. Great. Let's talk. Let that's the guy I want to talk to because he's at least honest and transparent, and chances are, because of that, we're gonna find something at least interesting to talk about and if not interesting, beneficial Right.
Something because we're being straightforward with each other. And so that's I feel like that attracts a lot of people. It's not the norm. And most of these these situations. And so you really stand out as man, that guy's just he's direct and bold and what's he got to say?
Because whatever he is saying I know is is at least honest. It's truthful. And he is not blowing any smoke. YY you're right, but you're leaving out one. A third of that that, that persona, that's authenticity. Yes. So if that person is honest, he, his integrity is there, but he's authentic.
He's authentic to himself and to the job. You know what, that's the person that I want to go connect with. Because you're right. Because even if you have nothing in common, you'll find something. Yeah. And you'll insure yourself that much more, but that is a very distinct part of what that question was all about.
Yeah. Okay, so here, let me 'cause I, I don't wanna get into that problem again. Can you recall a moment when being real second. When being real rather than impressive, completely. Change the outcome of a business relationship for you. I I don't know that I'm ever that impressive, so all I've got to go on is real.
Okay. I was telling a friend earlier this morning that that I don't think I've ever had the problem of being the best at something and not having to try. So yeah. Being real, i've been in sales for a long time and this may be a story more related to that and networking, but I think it's all the same.
I think sales is relationship building, network is networking, is relationship building. And so I walked into 30 or 40, sometimes more dental offices every day for five or six years of my life. And. They were the same offices every six months. So I'd run a, I'd run and see 3000 offices in six months, go back and see the same 3000 offices.
So I pretty well knew the offices that were gonna be cold and the offices that were gonna be warm, the offices that were gonna like me and the offices that weren't. And I had several instances where, i, instead of walking in with this positive, salesy, pitchy attitude, I knew that they didn't want me there.
And I'd walk in hands in the air, sorry guys. It's my job. I'm back again. Let's be real or do you have anything? You're not right. And the reaction, because I, you just turn the table so much, people just aren't the, the word you used authentic. They're not real. And so when you're slapped in the face with that auten authenticity, when you're slapped in the face with that, that real persona it's not it almost makes you stagger back, right?
And all of those walls that you've put up whether it's a networking event or a sales meeting or whatever the case is, all the walls that get put up, they start to crumble because. It's not what you're expecting. And so being real I think is as much it does as much to disarm someone and to put them in a vulnerable and authentic state themselves as anything that you could possibly do.
There, there's a mantra when you're networking, if they know you, if they like you and they trust you. They'll do business with you. Now, you don't have that problem with everybody knowing you. You're in and out of 6,000 offices, right? They knew you. Now, if they like you, narrows the field down just a little bit.
Not by much, but a little bit. So they know you, they like you, and they have to trust you in order to do business with you. And that comes in that authentic part. That's where the wall starts to come down. That trust factor begins to increase, and once the trust factor increases further than the wall coming down, you have a shot.
Yeah. Okay. Before then, you don't have any shot. Would you do business with somebody you didn't trust? No, not likely. Yeah. No, not likely. So you know that's what, that, that's what you need to really work on that trust factor, and I think it'll really be handy, which I think you have already.
Alright, let's talk ROI, how does human first networking directly translate to revenue? Or reputation over time.
The.
Again I've managed a lot of different salespeople and there's, I feel like a handful of different personalities and skill sets within sales. And sorry if I'm talking about sales, when I should be talking about networking, but again, I feel like it's a lot the same. And so one of the one of the most successful salespeople that I ever had was what I'd call a hammer.
He could take any nail and he could pound it into a board. Now, later on that nail would be really upset but they were in the board. I've never been that guy. I, I've always been, again the guy that, that tries to look at everything through, through the lens of somebody else what they're seeing.
And so my goal has always been to, to take their view how are they feeling about this? How can I turn this around and make their life better? And in doing that, again that human first interaction people you're more likely to create a long-term relationship.
I've had competitors come in behind me that have taken business away, and it usually doesn't happen for more than one interaction because people realize that's, yeah, that was forced. That's not what I wanted. Yes, most people can be talked into doing things they don't want to do. But when you have that.
That human first. Again, people, first putting them putting yourself in their shoes. When you have that mentality you're going to create more relationships. You're gonna create the referrals because that's how people wanna be treated. You're gonna create revenue and it's all gonna come naturally instead of through some sales process that you'll learn knocking doors to sell pest control.
No I agree. I, I feel that ever since the pandemic, because before the pandemic people were all out to build their customer list. I have 3000 customers and Right. They don't even know their name. But after the post pandemic people are into creating relationships and where.
In my former life, I was in the mortgage business. I would go to a show and come back with 300 cards and say, look how good I did. Did I do good? No, I didn't. I did horrible. Right now, when I go to a networking event, I come back with 15 or 20 business cards because I've had conversations with them, I've had a relationship with them, and I can follow up with them properly.
So yeah. So what you're saying really comes through. What advice would you give to someone who's been collecting contacts but not connections? How do they reset? Reengage more meaningfully? I just went over that. Yeah, we just talked about that. The you it's and I do think that the pandemic changed a lot of things.
And it did. I feel like it helped all of us. Understand the importance of relationships. The times when we couldn't just go into the office or go into the grocery store and talk to anybody we wanted, made us realize that those interactions are important. And we may not get all of them that we expect.
And so take advantage of the ones that you have and really make the most of them. Yeah, collecting contacts. Honestly I can go to chat GPT and get it to make me a list of contacts all day long, right? I can get email addresses. I, anymore, I don't even really have to pay for the stuff.
I can go find it doesn't make a difference. But collecting connections, collecting relationships and having that. That group of people that, that you actually know, you know how to help them, you know how they can help you you know who they know, what their connections are, right?
And having that is, is far more important. I would much rather have 10 or 15 people that I'm really close to that can, that, that I can help and they can help me. Then a thousand people that I know their name. Absolutely. And what you said was so real about after the pandemic because you don't know what you don't have until it's taken away from you.
So that interaction with people, it was taken away from us, and all of a sudden we realized I miss that, I miss talking to the person online. I missed, on, on a store line or clothing line or something else like that. I miss that interaction and that's where the beauty.
Of the in-person networking comes in because you get to feel the vibe of the person that you're speaking to, the vibe of the room, and you get to say, you know what? I don't want to continue this conversation. I, politely bow out. Say, look, that's nice. I'll see you around the event, I'm gonna go right and just do that.
So you're still meeting the people and everything else, but you're walking away with. 15 or 20 contacts that you can follow up with. And it's it goes much further. Okay. So are there any specific tools or platforms where a niche networking thrives better than others? Or is it really about how you show up and not where,
Again you're talking to a guy who likes smaller events and smaller things. And yeah there's different tools and platforms. I, I said in the beginning that I've sold RVs, right? That's something that I, my dad had a dealership when I was growing up. I worked for the largest RV dealership in the country.
And I, I've worked for, small mon PW type dealerships. And. I found that going to a, an RV show or going to a trade show in any capacity, to, to me the easier thing to do was sit down in an RV and wait for somebody just to show interest. And I'd talk to them. At that point.
We, we'd have small talk before that I'd interact with everybody. But like we talked about, you have a chance to step back, see everybody, how they're interacting, and then you. You hone in on and choose the people that you want. And a large trade show where you go and you come back with 300 cards that to me it could be a niche trade show, right? It could be really focused on dentistry. But if you're not. If you're not taking a niche approach and a human first approach to interacting with people and meeting people, then again, you're walking away with business cards that are empty.
And yeah, maybe you can shoot an email and say, we talked, or, I got your card. But it, it goes a lot farther to have. Those 10 or 15 people that you can say, how is your wife's surgery? Absolutely that, that goes a lot farther. And it gets even more, more honed in, more targeted as far as your network goes sometimes that, that can be by industry, sometimes it can be by type of person, right?
Like we can look and we can go, that guy's standing over in the corner, I'm gonna go talk to him. He looks like he's having a hard time. That's the guy that I'm gonna key in on. And so it's like we've talked about it's about yes, planning. And figuring out this, these are the things that I'm looking for.
I'm walking in here like with this. Then also having the flexibility and the agility to go, okay, I've talked to three people that this is what they're looking for. I'm gonna look for more people like that. I know that's not what I came in for, but I think I've got something here and I've got something that I can work with.
Okay. Okay. Let before I ask you the last question, I ask every guest the same question. You most of the guests, because it didn't pertain to all of them, but it pertains to you, you are successful in what you're doing and you've had a roundabout way of getting to it, but why don't you give us all a mistake that you've made and how you came out of it.
I'm not the guy who's pausing because I have to think of a mistake. I have to think of all of the mistakes and which one gonna talk about here. That's the majority of the answers, by the way. Yeah. I wanna be authentic in this. So the
one of the roles that I have in my current position is to. To create new businesses new ways of making money, but also new ways of supporting our current rep base and helping them to be able to make more money. And so we've tried a handful of things and failed. And I'll tell you the biggest thing for me that I've learned is that as soon as I start chasing money.
And ignoring people. That's when the failure comes I we're in startup mode with Gladly network right now and it's really easy every day to, to look and see all the things that we're doing wrong and not to see the things that we're doing. I'm convinced that the one thing that we're doing right, that that I haven't done in the past, in some cases is that I'm looking at every decision, every relationship, every connection.
With that mission to bless lives in mind. And so I, I'm convinced that if I continue to do that, then we won't be able to fail. Because to me the perspective that you go in with and whether it's a project or whether it's, hiring somebody new or what, whatever the case is, whatever the problem is that you're approaching if.
If you can look at it through that lens of how can I help other people that servant's heart, right? And in our case, the, the verbiage that we use is how can I bless lives? And if we can look at it through that then it's inevitable that success will come. It's just us getting out of the way.
That's so right and you can build off of your failures probably a lot better than you can build off of your success, 'cause you learn so much more. Listen I've been a small business owner, pizzerias, restaurants, graphic design studios. I, for six, 12 years at a time, but.
I didn't learn more from my successes. I learned so much from my failures and it made me who I am today. So I agree with that. Last question. If you had to build your network from scratch today, what are the first three things you do differently from how you started?
It's a different world than when I started for one thing. I think I think one of the things that, that all of us are guilty of is collecting the cards and not the people. And so I, I think that's the first thing that I would say is how do I, what's my focus going to be so that I'm not just.
Going out and finding contacts or finding this customer list but actually finding, relationships that matter and friends and real connections. I think that would be the absolute key there. I would take, probably take advantage more of organic networking opportunities. I feel like I've probably had more success in networking with.
Really organic and and unique interactions than I have with, say a typical networking event. And so for instance, I had an extra couple concert tickets and I posted 'em on Facebook Marketplace and the guy who bought 'em ended up being a guy that.
That was really great to network with. He was just, he's, he knows everybody. He's been around the block. He had a lot of positive things to talk to me about. I introduced him to some people and it wasn't at a networking event, it was literally selling tickets to a concert. And it's just because we started texting and both of us were open to creating that connection.
And so I think that would be another thing would just be, be open to creating connections and whatever situation that is, whether it's at your kid's soccer game or it doesn't have to be at at a big event. And then I would say I would probably walk in a lot more authentic and real than.
Than I, I used to probably when I started I it felt like you needed to be all polished up. I felt like you needed to be this, you had to portray that you had everything together. And in reality, none of us do. And it's refreshing to see somebody that's willing to say it.
And so I think with growth and maturity, I would probably step back and go, Hey guys. I don't know what I'm doing here, but let's do this together. I, I agree with that. I, when I first started out in sales I aspired to be that professional. Everything done correctly, nothing wrong.
That perfect scene, that scenario, and what I've grown to learn is that nobody wants that. Everybody just wants you and me. I made a mistake, all right. I own it. You have to own your mistakes. And correct the mistakes. But, the whole thing is to be authentic.
Be yourself. Brenda, I can't tell you how much of a pleasure it was to have you on as a guest today. It was really a great conversation. If somebody wanted to get a hold of you, whether it is to be coached or find out about your companies or find out about networking or whatever, what's the best way for them to get a hold of.
I'm really active on LinkedIn, our digital networking that we all do. I'm super active on there Brandon Sherwood. And then email's always easy, brandon@gladlygood.com. And, anything around Utah I try to make myself, myself known and I try to make myself go to even though it's not my favorite thing in the world it's, I as, as much as anything I want to be there for somebody else that's having a hard time and standing in the corner, maybe we can be wallflowers together.
That's great. I'm telling you, Brandon, this was great and I look forward to speaking with you in the future. Sounds good. Thanks Michael.
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Folks. A huge thank you to our guests for sharing such incredible insights today, and of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in and spending your time with us. If you're interested in my digital courses being coached or having me come and talk to your company, just go to MichaelAForman.com and fill out the request form.
Remember, networking isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. So take what you've learned today. Get out there and make some meaningful connections. If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share it with someone who could use a little networking inspiration.
Let's keep the conversation going. You can find me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my website michaelaforman.com/podcasts.
Michael is a business networking expert specializing in enhancing professionals' networking and communication skills to drive profitability. As a leading authority in this field, he is highly sought after for his dynamic presentations and workshops. His extensive experience has consistently led to significant improvements in corporate profitability by empowering individuals and organizations to connect more effectively and efficiently.
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