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I've got quite a guest this morning. His name is Chris Griggs.
Don't look like that, Chris. He is the owner of a photography studio, he's an Atlanta native but he graduated UGA. By the way, my future daughter in law also graduated from UGA. And he's got a wife, three kids, but you know what? I'm really not doing him justice.
Let me introduce Chris and let him tell you all about himself. Chris, how are you today? I'm doing great, Michael. I am actually really excited about doing this today because you know, you kind of mentioned those networking skills and all that, but you know podcasting skills are pretty important too.
I think, you know, something, it all works together, because one helps you and teaches you about the other. Oh, yeah, for sure. You know I really appreciate that intro. I don't know how interesting of a guest I am, but I'll try to stand my ground. You know one thing you didn't mention is being an owner of a photo and video company.
I have to give that credit to my wife, Jess, though. She is the founder of our company. She founded it a little over eight years ago and she really is the driving force. Behind what we do. I just kind of sort of claim part ownership. For my own sake, but she really is the one that drives the bus in most things and sometimes I'm along for the ride and sometimes, you know, she'll let me take a few things on. Okay, so you've got this photography studio video studio. And networking obviously is a very important part of what you do, how you market, but this has become a very digital world.
And how do you build genuine connections? In a world that's increasingly digital. Wow. Gosh, that digital angle is, is a tough one. I guess really to kind of start you're right. Networking really is, is, is huge. And I think a lot of. People, especially small business owners. I think they, they underestimate that and the value of it.
I was even talking to somebody the other day and and this kind of segues into something else that I'll bring up too, but their key role is, is. new client acquisition for their employer. And they kind of said, you know what, networking can almost be a full time job.
If your role is to bring in more clients, more customers, to get people in the door, whatever your business is whether you're standing behind a counter or working behind a computer networking has been absolutely key. In our business. I mean, it's absolutely crucial. From the digital side though, gosh I don't really have an answer on that one because to me, I'm really more.
You know what, that might be, that might be a really good dive on this too, to talk about the, the sort of the virtual digital aspect of that, you know, seeing, seeing faces, shaking hands, you know, even when those rooms are excessively packed with 100 people and you have to shout to the person next to you, but you know what, that might be a really good dive on this too, to talk about the sort of the virtual digital aspect of that.
And that might be something that I can learn here today. Well, it's, you know, virtual is good. Zoom is very good. But I am old school, and I believe in the face to face networking, networking events, meetings, small meetings, large meetings, whatever. Because you get to feel the vibe of the person that you're talking with.
You get to feel the vibe of the room. That you're in and so many things can happen that you need to pick up the vibe. Now, the first thing you must consider when you're speaking with somebody is confidence. You have to have confidence in yourself in order for you to start to speak on a confident level.
So it all starts from there. Can you give me a specific example of how a networking relationship significantly impacted your business? Oh, that's an easy one. So I'll actually kind of step back a few years on on this one.
So I actually came into our business about four years ago. So I did, as a lot of people kind of jokingly refer to as the pandemic pivot. So I had my prior career went for about 20 years. And so this is career number two. When I came in into the business Jess had been a member of some of the area organizations around here business associations and so on.
And she had showed up to a couple of meetings, you know, met some people picked up a tiny little business, but at that point for us, like joining any local area organization. Especially when we were literally trying to figure out week to week how to keep the business running and pay ourselves joining an organization for like 150 bucks a year or something like that, that was kind of a big deal.
So four years ago, we had an opportunity presented to us. I won't go too far into the story, but we had an opportunity presented to us to photograph an event for a larger organization and Fortunately, we got that and we were booked for it. And then the person that connected us with this opportunity said, the organization would actually feel a little better about you shooting this, especially considered what you guys are being paid to shoot this.
If you would join the organization, we're like, okay, sure. No big deal. And, you know, at that point, I think we had only joined, I think we were only actively, like once, twice a month attending to other organizations and those were to the tune, like I mentioned, like 150 for an annual membership and all that.
And we were like, well, sure. How much? And they were like, it's a 150. And we were just kind of like, Oh, for you. Okay, well you know, we had to give it some thought. So we bit the bullet, joined the organization. And we made a point to network, to show up to meetings, show up to after hours, show up to lunches, show up to anything that we could fit in our schedule with that organization, because we made a pretty significant investment at that, you know, for us at that time, that was, that was huge.
And even today, four years later, it's still not some change. But so networking. Showing up, being a part of that organization, our 850 investment netted us 35, 000 in revenue in the first year. And now on a year to year, we average, I think about 60 to 65, 000 revenue in our business, just from that one organization.
And that's because of the client base that we've built out of that organization. These are companies that we now shoot with on a regular basis. These are regular clients and clients who we've held onto for now, two and three years plus. So networking absolutely is key to our business.
And it's not just that we just made those relationships and then they just sort of self sustain still got to show up, still got to be seen, still have to follow up. We need that work. Yeah, the follow up. I say this all the time and on most of the podcasts, the follow up is almost more important than just meeting the person.
Yes, because it's not only how you follow up, but how many times and the way that you follow up so that you don't feel like you're overdoing it, but you don't want to underdo it as well. So it's very, very difficult. Oh, you, you're totally hitting that concern right there for me, because I'm, I'm always wondering how much is too much, how much is too little.
And most times I feel like I'm not doing enough. To be honest, I, you know, I have what's called a secret sauce for follow up. And within two weeks, you find out whether or not the person was serious. So it's, it's a, it's a fine line, but it has always worked very well for me.
And that's what I profess that, that follow up. But what would you say are the, the key elements with professional networking? The key elements. For me in my own experience is just. Becoming known, not showing up and trying to make a sale.
I guess the best way to sort of encapsulate this. And I don't take credit for this. Somebody else gave me this one is that networking is farming, not hunting. You know, I think a lot of people ship to network events and immediately they want to shake your hand. They want to tell you who they are and exactly what they do and why you need to use them.
And You know, when I started networking, I was guilty of that too. Definitely did that and found out right away. People don't care. And that's the quickest way to turn people away. But really just by showing up and just getting to know people, you know, and I think if you kind of get to get to know people a little, A little on a personal level, just to know if they're married, if they have kids, you know, I mean, know enough about what they do in their job just to have conversation, but not necessarily to try to drive them, you know, to book a project or something.
And over time, and this has been our experience over time, When people have a need for something and they remember you, they, they come to you and they're like, I've got an idea. Can I just talk to you about it? And I'm like, you know what, let's have a conversation. And that's it. I don't have to sell them on a photography package or a video package or give them a price or anything.
It's like, I don't even want to ask them, you know, well, what kind of budget are you looking at? Because I'm not concerned about the money aspect at that point, because they've approached me. They're like, I've got a challenge and I'm looking for a solution. It may or may not be me. Well, and that's fine. You hit a lot of topics that I talk about.
Okay. The first and foremost is you look to give, not receive. All right. So that's the first thing you walk into that room and you say, who can I be a good referral source for, or how can I help them become more successful? There's a lot of different ways to give and you're not even thinking about receiving.
Then you're talking about your rapport that you build with the person. Know you, like you, trust you. They'll do business with you. If they know you, that's great because you're in a big area and everybody knows you. You're a great guy. They like you. Well, that narrows the field down just a little bit.
But trust you, the trust factor is so crucial that, you know, when you're building that rapport with that person, and I use something else that all this is stolen, by the way, everything, I've just put it all together. But it's form, f o r m, family, occupation, recreation, and a message. So you want to talk to them about anything and everything, their family, what they do for a living, how they enjoy themselves, ever since the pandemic.
I have the days of building your customer base is really out the window. It's building relationships. And how do you build those relationships through form? Know you like you trust you. Everything else comes into play, but it's very, very important. Okay. So what is your, give me your, your biggest mistake you made in business and how you overcame it.
Oh, gosh, that's embarrassing. And it goes outside of networking too. I mean, it
doesn't even have anything to do with that, to be honest. You know, we work with a lot of difficult clients in a large segment of our business. That doesn't mean, we don't have a lot of undesirable clients.
Occasionally you just run across a personality. That's really hard to work with. And sometimes it's hard to not react to that. It could be as simple as gosh, like I said, I'm putting myself out there. I'll give you one example.
We had a real estate shoot one time and the agent was not there at the property that I was shooting. As I'm finishing the shoot, the homeowner comes in and I just make gentle, nice, good conversation. And then all of a sudden the homeowner starts kind of becoming, a little obsessive about what I am shooting and she starts asking questions that really pertain more to us and our business and our client who is the realtor.
And these were questions that actually got, I grew increasingly more uncomfortable with because it's like, The agent is the one who I work with and I guess long story short this particular homeowner started asking kind of personal questions like, well, what do you charge? Where, why are you charging this to my realtor and blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then also started. Tell me what she wanted to have photographed in the house, whereas we already had direction from our client, the realtor and it's, it kind of started, I mean, tension started building it. I felt like it was starting to escalate and I, I, I had to leave. I had to get out of there and as I'm leaving, the homeowner is yelling at me.
And it's really hard to not yell back at somebody because, you know, when it comes to like fight or flight, you know, it's like, you know, I want to fight, but I'm like, I can't do this professionally. I can't do this. But the thing was, is it ended up with the homeowner being mad at me. And then of course the Homer talked to the realtor about it.
We had a phone call with the realtor. Explain what happened, had a conversation, the realtor fully understood, but we never got a call again from that, from that realtor. Now, that was very early on for me, and that was a big lesson. It really was, because it's like, you know, it was a lesson in me keeping myself in check.
Not just me personally, but I have to remember that, I represent not just me, but I represent my business. I represent what I do. And there's a brand element to that. The biggest thing that I realized is that even though the realtor was always Our client and the homeowner was the Realtors client that homeowner is also a client by extension and what I do when I come in and when I photograph a house or do video or anything like that.
It goes beyond what we provide to our, our immediate client, because when the homeowner is trying to sell their house, they're trying to maximize, what they're potentially going to sell that house for and what they sell that house for probably is going to help them move into whatever the next step of their life, their journey, whatever is going to be.
And it really. Humbled me quite a bit and it made me change my perspective in how we work, not just with our clients, but clients, customers and clients as well. Because in the end, it doesn't matter who really booked the project with us and who's paying what, and all that kind of stuff, the end result is, is it.
That's it. That's what matters. What we deliver. Is the very thing that defines our business and how we work with people. And so Yeah, that was that was trust me. You do that one time you do not do it again. It's humbling. You know, and all of this comes around to that trust factor.
Because they have to trust you to such a point where they let you do your job. Yeah. But how do you establish. And maintain the relationships, thinking that trust factor, how do you maintain the relationships now with fellow professionals?
I know this probably sounds cliche, but chemistry, it's like personality chemistry. We've had clients that we get good work from. We even get regular work from, but we can barely hold a conversation, you know, but, and that's nobody's fault. Some personalities click better than others. But chemistry and personality is very important to us. In fact, it's one of the things that we bring up with our team within our company we've got about Six contractors that work with us on various projects.
Five of them are very active and very regular in our day to day business. And one of the things that we always tell them is that chemistry is really important. Personality is really important because it's part of our culture and our business. Quite simply put, if we didn't love what we do. We wouldn't do it fair enough.
And, and honestly, that comes up with our clients as well. So the very people that are booking projects with us and are bringing revenue into our business, same thing. You know, and it goes back to what I was saying earlier about. Just getting to know people, you know, using form, just saying hi and sometimes a handshake and a smile is kind of all you really need to do, and it kind of takes that tension away too.
And that's another thing too. We found out that it takes the weight off of our own shoulders. It's like if we make a connection at a meeting at an event, then. It doesn't mean that we got a booking. It just said we got a connection. We met somebody. We had a good conversation and to the point that the next time we see them, it's going to be like, Oh, my God.
Hey, man, it's great to see you again. There's one guy that is in three of our networking groups. Three different, completely different organizations. There literally was one day, a couple of weeks ago, I saw him three times in the same day it makes the job more fun when.
You see familiar faces, I'm not the best with names. I remember faces, but names are kind of hard to me. I'm probably gonna have to see you about a good six or eight times before I ever remember your name, but that's only, because of the sheer volume of people I encounter.
On a daily basis. So, so no offense to anybody. Yeah, no. You know, what you're describing, because you're describing the relationship you get to obtain with these people. And ever since the pandemic, when I said that, you know, it's really not a time for building a customer base anymore. And this is the way that I tell you the difference between a customer and relationship.
Let's say you're going along in a supermarket and I bump into you and say, Hey, Chris, how you doing? Hey, Mike, how you doing? Goodbye. And that's it. That is what a customer usually does a relationship. Hey, Chris, how you doing? Oh, that's great. How's your wife? Oh, is your child doing this? Oh, what was he doing?
Oh, he's playing little league now. Oh, that's great. And we have a little conversation that is a relationship so when I leave You now remember that much better. Remember me and you put me more on top of the pile of people that you've already run into. So it's, it's a relationship and actually I prefer this.
I prefer this type of, of getting together and networking because it brings us all closer. And that is exactly my, my philosophy. I've actually said this a number of times when speaking with people and also in network meetings, I mean, you're almost verbatim nailing, What, what my philosophy is, is that, and this may not be be the, be the best delivery, but I don't care about a transaction.
I don't, I really don't. I can have a one-off client and this happens in our business. We can have one-off clients all the time. Now, as long as we did our job, we did it well, we delivered, we did everything. To the satisfaction of the client, that's great, but I feel like in our business, we're more effective and we deliver better work when we understand what our client's business is you know, so without going long on it, I mentioned earlier, we belong to several organizations and.
associations and whatnot. But they're not all the same type of group. They're not just, you know, business chambers, you know, business association or, or whatever. We try to join organizations in sort of different markets, different areas. And that's one of the things that's also helped us build our business.
But going back to your point by getting to know people and what they do And what their business is about, you know, it doesn't matter if it's real estate, it could be banking, it could be insurance, it could be law. Maybe it's professional speaking and networking, Michael, you know, it's like by us kind of getting to know those people and what they do, it actually better positions us to deliver on what their needs are.
It really does. Okay. So let's do this. Give me one tip that If if somebody's looking to improve their networking or sales skills, what would you say? Just give me one tip I think I would say this networking and approaching people and all that you don't wake up one morning and you can just do it.
It's like anything else you do. Any hobby, any sport, any skill that you develop, it takes practice. You have to show up and you keep having to work sort of those social muscles, so to say. In order to walk into a networking event and be comfortable and just walk right up to somebody you've never met before and go, you look just as lost as I feel sometimes.
How are you doing? What brought you here? And just opening up a conversation that way you know, the other side of that too, especially, for those of us out there that attend networking events where you have to give your elevator pitch, quote unquote, Jesus, I am still learning how to do that.
That is so hard to do. It really is. Even though I've done it like 200 times, I get up there, I say what I say, well, you know, say your, your elevator pitch in front of a B and I group is one thing, but if you say your elevator pitch in front of real people, then you really don't, they say an elevator pitch is 30 seconds long and you try to keep it to that.
I don't. Okay. Networking skills are all practice, practice, practice. You'll get better. Now here's my elevator pitch. I help professionals network and communicate more effectively and efficiently thus creating more profits. Now, I don't say if I imagine myself in an elevator, I don't come out with that whole thing.
I help professionals network and communicate. And all you're trying to do is get a response. That's the whole idea of an elevator pitch is to get a response. So if they say, well, What do you mean by that? Or can you further explain that?
Or you know what? Let's get off the floor and just tell me about so something so you get a response. Okay. So, but that's, but that's the key thing you have to remember in, in, in the classes, when I teach in a workshops and things like that, that's exactly what I say, say just enough to get a response.
And then that will invoke the conversation and then it's up to you to take it for what it's worth But it's very important and that is just a small fraction of the part when you meet somebody When you when you walk into that room that big room Most people are like, oh my god, what did I get myself into?
But, you know, if you are there, if you've gone to eight networking events beforehand and you practice, practice, practice, you've tweaked it. You've done it. And you don't say certain things. You do say certain things, but what most people neglect is when they walk up to a networking table, you don't talk, you don't say a word, you listen for the conversation.
Is this a conversation that I want to be a part of? Well, it's not. I'm going to politely bow out and go to the next table. If it is, then you come out with something. Now remember, you're the expert in your field and you're professional. So whatever you say should really be that. And all you figure there's four or five people at the table.
All you're trying to do is to get two or three of those people to look at you comment on what you said So then you're thinking form when you're speaking to that one two or three people and you're letting them Talk and you're letting them talk about themselves because trust here's that trust factor That trust factor is building and that wall is coming down because listen Everybody loves to talk about themselves and you let them Let them talk,
and the first thing that you say, first of all, you're listening to them. You don't know distractions and you listen is the pause at the end of the listening and why is it so important because that tells the other person that you were listening to them wholeheartedly and you respond to them what they were saying, not the next thing that you want to say, but the next up to respond to something that they said.
Yeah. And after that, you say, you know, something I like you. I like the way you do your, your business. How can I make you more successful? How can I be a good referral source for you? It usually blows them away, but this is the art of giving. And not receiving. So it all works together, you know, I've even had moments where, you know, I'll meet somebody at any given event.
And I'll be honest with it. It's rare that I say that. It's very rare that I say that. And I'm sure a lot of people, maybe even yourself are going, never say that.
But no, no, I believe what you're saying. But what I follow up with that is this is like, you know what, let's exchange information because although I know I don't need your service, you don't need my service. I encounter people all the time who are looking for what you do. Networking has built our business.
And I am always, always willing and open to share information to somebody else who needs a lead, needs a direct contact, needs an introduction to somebody. Out of probably the 1500 plus contacts that I have saved in our CRM software. If somebody is looking for a mortgage lender, a a home remodeler, a painter, a plumber, an electrician you know, You know, somebody who's looking to open, you know, just moved to town and needs to know what bank to go to.
It's like I could give them pretty much an answer to anything that they're asking about or need some kind of information about. When we made a referral to somebody else, and this is one of those people that we did not think we would be doing business with they've contacted us and they've been like, Hey, you know we've added some staff, you know, to our office.
We've got 50 plus people. We think we need headshots. It's like, Oh, let's talk about that. You know, and it surprises us all the art of giving. Yeah. Because listen, if you give, give, give what goes around, does come around, it will come around to you because that client, that person will remember how much you help them.
Now the best way to do that obviously is to give a referral and not ask for anything in return. Because you will get that in return eventually. Okay, let's bring this full circle. All right. Give me one takeaway that my listeners can use today. One takeaway regarding network.
What's one thing that you do most often in networking?
I think the one thing that, and I do this consciously and subconsciously is Just try to be sincere, you know, just authentic, just be authentic, be genuine, be authentic. Like I said earlier, I'm not there to try to close a sale. That's not what networking is about. It really isn't. I mean, networking is just.
Just meeting people and having fun. I mean, honestly, that that's actually been the hardest thing for me to learn. And it's, it's so funny saying that now, because it's so obvious and sounds so easy, but having going to networking meetings and events and all this kind of stuff for four years, it's only within the past year that I'm just kind of like.
You know what? If I just walk into this place, no matter how many people there five or 150, I'm just going to go, I'm just going to have fun, and honestly, that's actually one of the things that also keeps me in check too. It's like, if I'm not having fun, I'll leave. I will. I mean, because your job to be a job, right?
I don't want my job to be a job, but also like, if it's a new group, it's a different environment, you know, if something feels off, I mean, we've learned to kind of trust our gut and just be like, maybe this isn't the best use of our time right now, because we have plenty of back work to do.
We got client work. We have things waiting to be delivered, finished, worked on, edited, whatever. You know, it's rare, really rare that we show up to a place and we check out after 15 minutes, right? You're picking up the vibe of the room. Yes. You're picking up the vibe of the room, the vibe of the other people.
You have to trust your gut, your instincts. And if you don't like the vibe of the room, then absolutely you pick up and walk out. Yeah. But if we're paying a hundred dollars for it. Yeah. Well, and yeah, right. Well, the paid ones, Oh, we're going to have fun. We're going to make sure we have minds work, but but again, it goes back to what I said earlier, if we didn't enjoy what we do.
Why would we do this? I've had plenty of jobs in my previous career where, I mean, it was okay, but I didn't love it. I wasn't passionate about it. You know, it's like I just showed up, clocked in, did the work, clocked out. I mean, it was about as robotic as it could be. And you know, that's easy to do when you work for somebody else, right?
Because you got a paycheck, you know, you're getting paid every two weeks. As long as you do your job, you do it well. You work just hard enough to not get fired. But, but. Now that we're business owners and we are, we are the only source of our income.
We are the only source of our business and we're the only ones providing for our livelihood, for ourselves and our family. It's like having fun is actually much more important. It makes our interactions with our clients better. And a lot of times, so I know I gave that horror story earlier about, you know, the homeowner of the house that I was shooting and all that, but you know, like now when I walk into a house and the realtor is there, or it could even be a builder, all right.
It doesn't have to be a resale in the homeowner is there too. That's the first person I walk up to and I introduce myself to. That is, absolutely, because I want them to know that I'm there for them. You know, that lesson I mentioned I learned earlier. I'm there for them. I really am. And when I have those opportunities to meet the homeowner or whoever the end user is, let's just say that the end user of the product that's being provided by putting them at ease, it actually puts me at ease.
So it kind of makes sense. And it sets the tone right there. And it's like, within the first five minutes of showing up on a project, it's like, there it is. The tone has been set. The vibe is there. The atmosphere is good. And it's just like, you know what? You're going to have fun with us.
Let's just knock this out. And we're going to deliver some amazing work. It makes working that much easier because it's really not like working, you know, it makes it more fun. Chris, let me ask you a question. Somebody wants to contact you for photography, for video or anything else.
What's the best way that they can get hold of you. And if you have anything in the works that's coming out, that's new. Tell me about that also. Yeah, sure. So they answered the first part of your question. We're really fortunate that we have a very unique name. So for anybody who missed it or didn't see it in the notes our company is LaRouche photo.
It's L A R U C A G photo. And if you look for at or hashtag LaRouche photo on pretty much any social media platform, you will find us. We're in all the usual places, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube. We have our own channel there where we post client videos, things like that. And if I missed one, I probably did.
I think we have a TikTok page, but I know we don't know where TikTok's going. Instagram is probably the best place to find us. That's where we keep A lot of our current work posted. We don't do a lot of videos there, but as far as our photo work, every market, every industry that we service, you'll see examples there.
So things that are kind of coming up sort of new for this year. We are expanding our team. We're increasing our capabilities to bring on more clients. As a matter of fact just in January, we've brought on two new builder clients in our business.
You know, they're testing the waters with us. We're testing them too. But we've had multiple projects already, already in the bag and shot and delivered for them. And. They've been super happy and we're trying to get some more builder clients on board with our business. It just so happens, and this goes back to the whole pandemic thing, that the majority of our business happens to be property related. It's not what we were looking to do. It's not sort of that niche market that we were just like, that's it. That's our only focus. It just turned out that about, I'm just going to guess probably about 60 to 70 percent of our business is property related.
That includes of course, resale market. That's always there. But we've really built our business into the the new build markets. So we work with a couple of national builders, some regional builders, and some custom luxury home builders as well. We work with remodeling companies. We work with investment companies.
We work with a small amount of even commercial real estate, people who are looking for that mixed use office type work. And a lot of our work is actually sort of grown peripherally out of that market. So when we shoot for builders and things like that, we've developed relationships with.
Mortgage providers and closing attorneys you know, and other in remodeling companies. And it's, it, it's kind of interesting. So how that all just sort of grew out of itself, but outside of that,
we do a lot of headshot work. We do a lot of event and video work. We shoot a work shows and we shoot business seminars. We also do a little bit of product work too, but we don't push for that. But occasionally somebody comes in, we shoot product. But I think probably overall, the biggest thing Area, or I would say the biggest category of what we do in addition to this property stuff.
And actually the property work sort of siphons back into this category too, is we provide marketing assets. I think that's honestly probably the most accurate description of what we do. In short we do photo and video.
It's like, yes, in the end we deliver photography, we deliver videos and things like that. But what we're doing is we're providing people with marketing assets. Because when it comes to social media, these companies, they need content.
They need content for social media marketing, and it doesn't matter if it's a product, if it's a service, or even if it's their own face, right? And if that's what they build their business on, you know, just recognition, then, you know, Hey, that picture of you is pretty important, right? But your marketing assets go beyond social media.
It goes into whatever you, anything you put in front of a potential client, you need a photo or a video of some sort. You know, every presentation, if it's, if it's a proposal debt to a new client, if it's your next Facebook post another good example is let's say a company's redesigning their website for 2025.
We've worked with web design companies as well to provide full asset suites for websites. So all the photography, all the video, your video banners, all that kind of stuff, you know, probably a better, better and larger picture of what, of what we're able to offer.
Okay, Chris you know, something, this was an outstanding podcast. I love learning all about what you do. And if any of my listeners want to contact Chris, contact him, go on Instagram. That's the most prevalent one. And just thank you for coming on. Thanks, Michael. I appreciate it. This has been a lot of fun.
And to be honest, this is I haven't done a lot of podcasts, so I needed this practice. All right, then. All right. Goodbye.
Michael is a business networking expert specializing in enhancing professionals' networking and communication skills to drive profitability. As a leading authority in this field, he is highly sought after for his dynamic presentations and workshops. His extensive experience has consistently led to significant improvements in corporate profitability by empowering individuals and organizations to connect more effectively and efficiently.
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