Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections. An Interview with Kirsten Graham and Michael A Forman

📍  Welcome to Networking Unleashed, building Profitable Connections, the show where conversations turn into momentum. I'm Michael Forman, and today's episode goes deeper than tactics. We're talking about something that shapes every decision you make in business, your relationship with money. My guest helps entrepreneurs fall back in love with their businesses by finally getting honest about their profit. Not just making money, but keeping it, understanding it, feeling confident around it. We're exploring how money clarified changes. I'm sorry, we're exploring how money. Clarity changes the way you show up in conversations, how mindset shapes the partnerships you attract and why strong connections start on the inside before they ever show up on the outside. If you ever wondered why you're busy earning and still feeling stuck. This one's for you. I'd like to welcome to the podcast Kirsten Graham, and I would just like you to introduce yourself and tell us how you got here. Sure. Thanks Michael. I'm so excited to be here with you today. My background is actually real estate and I know you and I had an opportunity to speak a little bit before we hit record and found out your background is also mortgage, so it's always fascinating when we find those connections. I started selling real estate and then I moved to the mortgage side of the industry and I owned a mortgage company and a title company. I did a lot of loans for self-employed people, so I saw all their business tax returns and I saw their personal tax returns. And inevitably people would ask me, can I take you to lunch and pick your brain? And I mentored business owners for over a decade before I actually started business coaching and taking paid clients. One of the things that I see consistently in clients is the clients that have their finances in order, their bookkeeping's done, they're reviewing their numbers each month with their bookkeeper. Those are the businesses that are going to grow consistently, and the actually the business owners that are happiest, even if they're not making the kinda money they want to make in that moment, they're in control. They know what's going on. They have the power to make decisions. And so I think my background in mortgages. Kind of led me to the fact that, in business coaching I focus quite a bit on finances as well. Outstanding. And I see we have a lot in our backgrounds that, that we do alike. And I was in mortgages for 12 years. Okay. So you say networking isn't just about strategy. When profit mindset enter the picture, how does the purpose of networking change? Oh, absolutely. So first of all, I think the biggest mistake people make when they're networking is they walk in and they try to sell everyone. And that's not the case. And networking is about building relationships, finding people who really understand what you do, so they can refer to you understanding what other people do, so you can refer to them. And so if you are in a place where you are desperate to make a sale, then you have, you're walking into that networking group looking at everyone like a target. Rather than looking at like a person and building a relationship, and I feel like that energy instantly repels people. So I feel like if when you have your finances more in order and you're calmer when you go into networking, I'm here, I'm gonna contribute to this group, I'm gonna meet a lot of wonderful people, and I'm gonna start building those relationships and have faith that business will come from it. But it may not happen right away. Absolutely. And I teach the same thing that when you go into a networking event, you go in with what's called a servant's heart. You go in looking to give rather than receive, and your business will come from it, but maybe not necessarily that minute. So yes you're right on point with that. Many people make money but don't keep it. How does that pattern show up in the way that you build relationships and run their business? Yes, so I think for a lot of people, maybe they grew up well, A lot of us grew up in households that didn't have an overflow of money, or maybe we're told money doesn't grow in trees. So I think there's some mindset issues around money. And for some people, if they don't. Resolve those and work to clear those, they're never gonna hold onto money. And so I feel like that's something, some inner work that often has to be done. But if you have a business where you have great revenue, money's coming in, but it's flying out the door faster, then you could track, it's probably 'cause you have some money blocks and some money issues you need to deal with. And I think that the way that affects us, again with how we show up. Is it, even if you're making great money, you have great revenue, you're still broke, right? Because it's flying out the door. So it puts you right back in that place of being desperate for the next sale. Absolutely. Absolutely. When someone falls back in love with their business, by falling in love with their profit, what shifts in how they show up in conversations? Oh, absolutely. So you have a lot of shame and guilt around money. So you're not taking care of your bookkeeping and the tax season rolls around and you're stressed about tax season, and then you end up kicking the can down the road and you file that extension. You don't feel good about yourself, you don't feel confident. It causes a lot of imposter syndrome because you're not running your business like a business. So at the core level. Not taking care of your finances is eating away at your confidence. It's also eating away at your ability to make decisions. So I feel like that has to do with how we interact with people, right? If we're not feeling confident, if we're not feeling capable in our business, then we don't show up as confident and capable. Absolutely. A, absolutely. And there's so many things that I can say, and you were so on point with everything that you just said that I'm not gonna add anything to it. How does how does clarity around money affect confidence in networking and why Can people sense when someone is uncertain about their value? Yeah, so one of the things that we see is when our clients finally get their bookkeeping in order, and if you didn't take a lot of accounting classes, you may not know how to read a profit loss statement or a balance sheet, and we find that a lot of people have been talked down to or a. By CPAs or dismissed so they don't feel confident around money. So when you have your finances in order, you're able to make great decisions and that is going to impact everything you do, especially in networking. And I'm gonna take this a little bit of a different direction, Michael, but sometimes, people belong to a networking group and I feel like it's important to track. The revenue that comes from those groups. I also think it's important to track the revenue that you're giving to other people. It doesn't have to be tit for tat, but it's important to know that you're contributing. But it's also important to know is that network group the right group for you because it, maybe it's not the right group. So when you spend time and you spend money out networking, you want to make sure it's the right group. You wanna make sure that you're doing everything you can to improve your skills in networking so that it is profitable because time is your most valuable asset. And if you're spending hours a month, 6, 7, 8, 9 hours a month and you're not reaping any results, that's a problem. And I think that makes you show up insecure and again, people who don't know what their finances, they often undercharge. So then even if you are getting money out of that business out of that networking group, you're not charging enough to make it profitable, so then you're resentful. So there's a lot that goes into how we handle our finances. That's so true. And it's your perceived value and that builds your confidence. And it's. When I began first speaking, you first speak, you say, oh my God, I have these free times and I'm gonna go speak. I'm gonna tell everybody what I have, and then I slowly but surely crept up in the dollars, whether a thousand, 2,500, 5,000, 7,500, it goes up. But I, I realized now my perceived value was higher than what I valued myself. But I had to work up to that. Absolutely. And that has to do with confidence and there's so many things that feed into that confidence. The difference between confidence and cocky. Absolutely. We're not talking about having an ego. We're talking about being confident in what you do and that you're gonna show up for your clients and you're gonna deliver, what you promised them when you started working with them. And, most of our clients, they wanna help people. They're great at what they do. So confidence is about being able to serve at the highest level. And that includes going in, networking, being able to show up and serve in that networking group, not just going into it for yourself. That's confidence, that's not ego. Absolutely. Absolutely. What connection do you see between healthy financial habits and stronger professional relationships? That's a good one. Again, it goes back to confidence. If you're growing a business and let's say you're surrounded by business owners because you're out networking and you always perceive them as being more successful. Maybe they're spending more money traveling. Maybe they're ordering the most expensive dinner at the networking group, whatever that looks like. If you're struggling with your finances or you're not really sure what you can spend on different things, then you're always feeling insecure even when you're out. So let's say someone says to you, Hey, we've got this great opportunity for you to attend this event, but it's $800. Maybe that's something you can't commit to because you don't have your finances in order, so you don't know if you have the money or you're so in scarcity mode, you're afraid to spend money, even if that $800 could turn into $80,000. So it, it really affects us because we don't know how to invest in our businesses, and then we end up comparing ourselves to everyone else, which is never a good idea because you don't really know what's going on in someone else's world. But when you're feeling that insecurity of everybody else is doing better than I am. It's really just because you don't really know what's going on with your finances. Having a great bookkeeper and learning how to read that profit loss and that balance sheet really does change everything. Yes, a absolutely correct and I know several bookkeepers and several CPAs and then you have your tax guys. But you really have to know what your numbers are each month so you can have that confidence. So you could go out on a limb if you had to and say, look, I don't exactly have the money, but I know it's there, but I have the money, so I'm gonna take the chance and go. You can't take that chance unless you have the confidence. Where do business owners unknowingly block opportunities because of the way they think about money? It's, I think it's not tracking ROI. So return on investment I. I think networking is really powerful. Running Facebook ads can be very powerful. There's lots, going to an expo and having a booth can be very powerful, but you need to know what you're spending on those events. And not just money, but also time. How much time are you spending and how much money, like what is your hourly rate when you calculate your hourly rate and how much time you're spending networking, are you actually bringing that money back in? So I think one of the biggest challenges is people not tracking. Their ROI. And again, like if you're in a networking group and it's not working out for you, maybe it's just a wrong group. So don't spend money in that group and spend a lot of time in that group if it's not the right group. But if you're not thinking that way, you're not assessing those things, then you're never gonna make that decision. So maybe that a thousand dollars a year you spend with one networking group and the six to eight hours a month you spend with them. Is bringing in very little for you, but maybe you switch to another group, the same thousand dollars, the same amount of time, but all of a sudden that's bringing in 50,000 in revenue every year for you. You need to be willing to look at that information. And here's what I think is especially hard though, is they're wonderful people in all the networking groups. Just because a networking group isn't great for you as far as ROI goes, it doesn't mean you have to end the relationship with all of those people. You could still be friends with them, you could still socialize with them, but you need to spend your time and your money. In a different way to generate revenue. Absolutely. And that reminds me of one of my clients. He switched career fields. He was forced to switch career fields, but that's a whole nother story. And he was like a shotgun shell. He went out to every single networking group and everywhere he can go and everything else for a year. And I said to him, I said, okay, which one of those worked and which ones didn't work? He goes, what do you mean? I said, which ones did you make money from, and which ones are you just there socially? Because the ones that you're there socially cut 'em out. Don't do them anymore and don't look for new groups now because you have to start to focus in on what's bringing you in money. So you focus in, so he did that he got rid of about half his networking groups and he sees that he's getting a lot more money that way. I said, good. So do this for a year, and if you want to then start to expand, so each, everything comes within. Reason, but within a time, and you have to see how much money you're making because you are a solopreneur, right? You're in here by yourself. You want to get bigger and you wanna have an employee or two or three, but you have to get your house right first. Yes. Because if you start to build, you can't build something on straw, you have to build it on concrete. So that's your foundation. I love that. Alright. I, I. I go outta the way. Alright. How does mindset shape the kinds of partners, clients, and referrals someone attracts. Yeah, if you're confident in what you do, and when I say confident, I don't mean your business has to be blowing up right now because businesses have highs and lows. So even if you're at a low in your business and maybe you're needing to pivot a little bit, if you're working on that, you're on top of that. You know what's going on, you're cnce is going to be higher, and so you are gonna attract other confident entrepreneurs. You're gonna attract relationships with people who maybe they're making, three or $400,000 more than their business than you are. They always say, we wanna surround ourselves with people who are the next level. That's really hard to do when you don't feel confident with yourself. Most clients, I think, are really confident in the services that they deliver because they see the results and they have raving fans where they don't feel confident often is in the mechanics of running their business. The admin, the bookkeeping, the marketing, those are the things that often eat away at their confidence. So if you want to be around confidence, successful people. You need to perceive yourself as a confident, successful person and put the pieces in place to make that happen so that you're not faking it till you make it. You're actually building yourself up. I love that saying, who do you have to be to go to the next level? At every stage in a business's growth, whether it's zero to a hundred to 250, 500,000 to a million, we have to become a little bit of a different person in order to get there because it requires different skills. And so investing in yourself in the back end of your business is so important for attracting the right relationships when you're out networking. Absolutely. And one thing I learned when I was, I had a brick and mortar company several I should say, but when I was doing all that I learned that, okay, let me see the things that I enjoy doing and the things that I don't enjoy doing. Bookkeeping was one of 'em. I don't like doing that. Okay. So I farm that out. So I had somebody else do it while I concentrated on the things I enjoyed. And that promo that made my business grow and grow. And I learned from that. And I went to the school of hard knocks. I went to the school. I learned how to do everything wrong. Yes. Before I did it correctly. So that's. Good. Yeah, Michael, that brings up a good point. I think that's, as a business coach, I specialize in outsourcing, right? So whether that's bookkeeping, virtual assistants, or marketing virtual assistants, when you start to feel more confident about yourself, you understand that you deserve to have support in your business. When we're talking about six to nine bucks an hour. It's almost ridiculous that you can't afford it. Sometimes it's about cutting out other expenses so you can afford support in your business, and I think that in and of itself shifts how people view themselves. When you hired that bookkeeper, how did you feel about yourself after that? I felt great because that took that pressure off my shoulders and I didn't have to think about it. I shouldn't say I didn't think about it. I thought about it 'cause I always met with him. Weekly, not monthly. I met with the bookkeeper weekly, but the pressure of having to put reconcile everything was off my shoulders. So I felt free. Yeah. And we don't realize when we're doing tasks in our business that are not. Ideal for us to be doing again, that erodes our confidence. My business partner, one of the things she talks about is the first thing she hired for was a bookkeeper, and she owned a digital marketing agency and she needed to be creative. She said, I had no idea how much that pile of receipts sitting on my desk, staring at me every day, was eating away at my creativity. So when we have tasks in our business that we're just not doing, we need to figure out is there a way to outsource that so that I get it mentally outta my head and I can start focusing on the things that you know are gonna drive revenue. Absolutely. Absolutely. Hit the nail right on the head. Okay. What's one belief about money that quietly holds people back from forming deeper and more productive connections? I think there can be a lot of shame and guilt around money. For some people that shame and guilt can come from being really successful. They can have a lot of guilt or shame around having more than other people. We don't think of that. We often think if we don't have enough money coming in, we have shame and guilt because we're not doing as well as everyone else. But there are a lot of different ways that money issues can show up. And when you're not feeling, again, confident with your pricing or confident explaining your offers or confident. You know enough, this is the other thing. You've gotta be confident enough to pay attention. To what you're ref what everyone else in that group is doing so that you can really understand who they are, what they do, who their ideal client is, and you can refer to them, if you're going to network. Becoming a connector is huge and if I think if you're always worried about money or money's, that's that. That running in that background, there's always some stress with money. It's really hard to focus on giving to other people. So figuring out what money blocks you may have. And again, I'm not a money mindset coach. I'm definitely more tactical. Let's get you a bookkeeping VA for nine bucks an hour kind of thing. But if you have money blocks, there's so many people out there that can help you with that because you're not gonna build great relationships if you're always worried or your confidence is being eaten away at by money blocks. No, that, that's why I said when you first go into a networking event, the mindset if you change your mindset to having a servant's heart Yes. 'cause that relieves all that pressure. You don't have to think about any of that. The only thing you're thinking about or worrying about is how can I help you? How can I help this person? And if you walk away and you help 2, 3, 4 people, that's a home run, right? Yeah. Because in turn. In turn they will. They will help you. Yeah, and what you don't realize is that when you become the resource for your client, so Jeannie and I keep a running list of people. We can refer to things we don't do. We don't build WordPress websites. Anything that we don't do, we have a list of two or three or four people that we can refer it to because we want our clients to see us is trusted advisors. If they need something, we want them to reach out to us and say, Hey, do you know anyone who can do this? By referring them and being top of mind when they need something to call us. It means we're constantly in relationship with our client. They may not need one of our services right now, but they may not need one-on-one coaching right now, or whatever that looks like. But they are reaching out to us because we have become trusted advisors, which means when they have a problem that we can solve and we say, oh, we could take care of that for you. We have this offer. They're gonna, they're gonna jump on it. So you don't realize that when you become the connector, when you become the person who knows exactly what Joe does, who Joe's ideal client is, and you know exactly how to refer Joe, then people will continue to come to you and ask for those referrals. So it's very important to realize that being an asset or a connector for your clients is a way to stay in great relationship with them. Absolutely. And in my area, I'm known as a super connector. Because really once a week, I try at least once a week to get two people together, get a person with a problem, person with a solution, and then I introduce them. I step away. Yes. After that I step away, but in the back of each one of their minds oh, Mike gave me that referral, so let me see what I could do for him. So I'm trying, I'm getting business later on, but right then I'm putting them together and I don't have to worry about it. Yeah, absolutely. And you're helping two people connect whether they are able to do business together, may or may not happen, but they could also become referral partners for each other. You just don't know. But it is all about connecting people and I love that you're a super connector. I used to be a super connector back in the day, but everybody goes through their emotions, yeah. When someone gains control of their finances, how does it change the energy that they bring into a room or a conversation? We just talked about this, right? Yeah. When you, again, know where your money's going and you have the power, because we don't think about this, but quick story, when we actually, our bookkeeper retired and she actually sold her business, but we decided to go ahead and outsource our bookkeeping overseas because. I've been hiring bookkeepers for CPA firms and bookkeeping companies, for a few years now. And so we decided to go ahead and outsource that. And it was interesting. We knew we would save money, but one of the things that we weren't expecting to happen was it shifted our relationship with our money a little bit and it was the first thing that happened was our bookkeeping. VA said, you have a lot of different revenue streams. Would you like me to break those down? So each month we can figure out what's coming from each offer. Michael, I'd never thought to ask my bookkeeper to do that. She never brought it up. It was, it just never, we thought we didn't think about it, that right there in and of itself gave us so much more information. We realized one offer, we were really underpricing it. We figured out what marketing we were doing for each offer and what was working and what wasn't working for those particular offers. Rather than looking at it with gross revenue. So obviously when you have that type of relationship with your finances, now you have the ability to make really smart decisions. And I think that, I think when we are at that place where we feel like we have power, we have control, we have information to, to make smart decisions, you're gonna show up in a room differently. Even though we don't walk into a networking group thinking, oh, how's my, where's my money? What's going on with my money? Do I have a money block? We don't walk into it thinking that it's subconsciously running in the background. So you could have positive things running in the background wow, I just had a great meeting with my bookkeeping. VA cash flow is solid right now. I've got this great opportunity. So you see it a little bit differently when you're just it's about control when you just know what's going on. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. Let's bring this podcast full circle. If listeners want better results from their network, what's the first internal shift they should make before changing anything external? Go into it with a desire to become a connector. You don't have to be a super connector like Michael, but you go into it becoming a connector because when you realize that if you, again, people come to you all the time with a problem, and if you can't solve that problem, if you have valuable resources to refer them to. That again, it changes the relationship that you have with that person, whether it's a client or a friend or a family member, because you're serving them, you're connecting them with someone that you trust who could truly help them. So when you go into any type of networking thing event, think about how can I connect people? How can I be this connector of people, broker relationships, so to speak. But then you're focusing on giving, like you said, going with the givers capacity, a mindset of giving that really is the first shift I think. Everyone can make when it comes to networking. Absolutely. Kirsten, I can't, this is such, was such a great podcast because I believe in everything that you do. And I just, I see the way you're going. If somebody wanted to get hold of you, whether it be coached by you or just to talk to you and ask you a question, what's the best way for him to get hold of you? So if they're interested in a bookkeeper, if your finances are a hot mess, go to less math, more money.com, less math, more money.com. We have a free masterclass that we teach live twice a month, so we'd love to have you show up there. We teach you a lot about bookkeeping, things that you're missing with your write offs, and then at the end we go live with q and a. Otherwise, you can go to our website, which is six figure business coaching.com, and that's SIX. Figure business coaching.com. You can learn more about us and there is a link on there where you can book a call with me and we can figure out how we can help you. And if I don't, if I can't help you, I bet I know someone who can. Outstanding. Outstanding. That's what happens when money, mindset and connection finally line up. When you feel clear about your value, your conversations change. When you feel confident about your profit, your relationships change. When you respect your business, others do too. Take one idea from today and carry it to your next conversation. Pay attention to how different it feels when you speak from clarity instead of pressure. If this episode gave you a new way to look at your business or yourself, share it with someone who's building their future, one decision at a time, and be sure to follow a networking unleashed. Building profitable connections so you never miss a conversation that helps you grow the right way. I'm Michael Forman, and remember the way you think about money shapes the way you, the way the word world responds to you. I'll talk to you soon. Thank you.  Well, hold on folks. Don't go anywhere. Let's hear from our sponsors. David Neal, co-founder Revved Up Kids. Revved Up Kids is on a mission to protect children and teens from sexual abuse, exploitation, and trafficking. They provide prevention, training programs for children, teens, and adults. To learn more, go to RevD up kids.org. Henry Kaplan Century 21. When it comes to making the biggest financial decision of your life, leave it in the hands of a proven professional. Henry Kaplan Henry is a global real estate agent with Century 21, celebrating his 41st year in business. No matter where you're moving, Henry, has the right connections for you. You can contact Henry at 5 6 1- 4 2 7- 4 8 8 8.   a huge thank you to our guests for sharing such incredible insights today, and of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in and spending your time with us. If you're interested in my digital courses being coached or having me come and talk to your company, just go to MichaelAForman.com and fill out the request form. Remember, networking isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. So take what you've learned today, get out there and make some meaningful connections. If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a review. Share it with someone who could use a little networking inspiration. Let's keep the conversation going. You can find me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my website michaelaforman.com/podcast.