Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections. An Interview with Larry Kaufman and Michael A Forman
- mforman521
- Sep 10
- 21 min read
📍 Welcome to networking,unleashed, building, profitable connections. I'm your host, Michael Forman, and today's episode is all about how to build a business reputation and a legacy. By showing up with purpose and generosity. My guest is the author of NCG Factor, a powerhouse framework that stands for networking, connecting and giving.
He's on a mission to help professionals stop showing up and throwing up. In sales conversations, and today, start building authentic relationships that open doors, close deals, and create real impact from mastering LinkedIn the right way to becoming indispensable in your career or your personal life. Add your personal life.
We're going deep on how to sell without selling. Connect, without faking it and lead. With value instead of ego. If you're ready to learn about how to network like a pro, connect like a human and grow your business with intention, you're in the right place. So let's start. I would like to welcome Larry Kaufman.
He is the author of the book I just mentioned. Larry, welcome to the podcast and give us a little bit about your background. Michael, thank you. Very nice to meet you. And I love that east coast. The way that you say my last name is not the way that I introduce myself. I'm okay. I'm Larry Kaufman, but I like the way you say it better.
Great to meet you. I'm Illinois born and I've lived here all my life actually. And so I would say I am a sales person from the time I was in college to present, even though I'm in leadership. I am always a sales person, but I'm not an in your face sales person. And I've been in all types of industries, but I think we we are very similar in our approaches to networking, building relationships.
I think we're gonna talk very similar speak today, and I would say that if you were to, look at me, I'm a. Giver connector. I'm a global speaker, LinkedIn expert and a business leader. And I'll give you a little personal, married 36 years, coming up Friday this week. I don't know why she stays with me, but I'm glad she does.
And I have two children in their twenties. Hopefully they'll be leaving the home soon. I'm working on that. But other than that, everything's great. That sounds terrific. I see a kinship with what we talk about. I too, by the way, have been married 36 years, two weeks ago. So we're the same in that regard.
Do you believe that everybody is a salesperson? Everybody is the face of the company. I think a lot of things that we do in general, everyone has to sell, right? You have to sell yourself in whatever role you're in when you interview for a job. And so I think that whatever capacity, definitely if you're in a sales role, and sometimes people who are in a sales role are really not salespeople, right?
We've touched that world. We've worked with salespeople. Some survive, some don't. It's a hard job. Post COVID, even more difficult. Michael, I would say everyone is a salesperson in some way. To meet that significant other. There's a bit of a sales job. Yeah. And some, sometimes you don't close that deal.
No, that's true. That's true. And that was just something that, that I, when I go on stages, I do workshops. That's always my first question, who in this room is a salesperson? And if everybody doesn't raise their hand. I say something about it, but here, lemme go into the questions. Let's kick off with the NCG factor.
What inspired it and how does networking, connecting, and giving actually play out in the real world of business? Yeah, I think what inspired it was I reflected on my time, back in the college days, right back when I went to college. 'cause I'm very mature. Not old. Very mature. Back when I went to college, I didn't have the internet, right?
I didn't have LinkedIn, I didn't have a cell phone. Everything was different back then. It was a different way of, I. Life and back in my college days was about having fun and I didn't think about, serving on a charity board, a junior board volunteering. It was all about Larry.
It wasn't about other people. And I would say that things have changed a bit today. And so when I. I guess when I go out today and I get the opportunity to speak at a university. I'm so excited. Not that I don't like presenting to senior level salespeople or CEOs or board members, and I've done all that.
But I love meeting with the college kids because they really haven't been exposed to networking. They haven't been exposed to building authentic relationships, and that's the time I want to catch them. That's the foundation they could build that no one taught me about that. And I want to help them understand LinkedIn.
I wanna help them understand networking. The book, the NCG Factor, is networking, connecting, giving, but it's a different way to network. I believe the way you and I like to network, right? With authenticity, building relationships, not this social exchange of business cards. I think we're trying to get to know people, right?
We're not just, how many people can I meet at this event? I was like that. I was that guy. I love going to events and I just loaded my pockets with business cards and if I came home empty, I thought, wow, this is great. Empty of mine and filled with other cards was a big win. That wasn't a big win.
I wasn't really, I wasn't getting to know people and the connecting aspect to me. I meet you today and I go I know you were in the Air Force before. There's a friend of mine, I think you would get, you guys would align. He thinks like you, he was actually former Air Force. I think that way when I get to know people and I'll put people that have things in common.
Or just, they just have that match where I think they get along, they'd have a great conversation, potentially build a nice relationship. And the giving really is, it's giving of your knowledge. Like you do that in your talks, your podcast giving isn't always about donating to a charity or about how much money you donate.
It's giving your, of yourself and your time and your knowledge. That's the way I think that's, it is very true and you hit on so many points that I wouldn't have time to discuss all of them, but. Do you believe? I believe. Okay, lemme start that way. I believe that ever since the pandemic we have, everybody relies on Zoom, on the cell phones.
They forgot about this personal touch. And really the days of building your customer list is gone and the day of building relationships is here. So when I used to go, I was in a mortgage company. I was part of a mortgage company and I used to come home with a shoebox filled with business cards. They said, yeah, look how good I did.
But did I do good? No, I didn't because I didn't have relationship with any of them. So that's what I feel is the difference. Okay. So you talk about building authentic relationships in a world full of noise and automation. How does someone actually do act actually do that without sounding scripted or salesy?
I think it's gotta be one of those things where you really do want to build a relationship. When I meet with people they know right away that I'm authentic, that I'm just, I'm not there to. We talked, you said it earlier, show up and throw up and too many people do that.
And so I'd rather actually get to know the other person. I, I do some matchmaking too, and it works the same way in relationships, personal relationships. If you show up and throw up and you're not interested in the other person. You can't build a relationship, and I do think we are much more compassionate post COVID and we have to be more authentic.
How do you do that? Look, some people, I'll be honest with you, some people may struggle. Some people just, that's just who they are. I can, we can only do so much to guide people there. It's gotta come from the heart and you're gonna know, you're gonna be able to pick out that person that they're trying to be a little authentic, but they can't wait to sell you.
Their product or service, they're like, so tell me where you're from. Oh, air Force. That's great. By the way, let me tell you what I represent. I will talk to people and I could talk to 'em for an hour and they'll be like, Larry, you've asked all about me. I don't know anything about you.
That's the best sales meeting that you could ever have. Absolutely. Because you learned about the other person. And you know what's interesting when you do that authentically. And people authentically wanna know what you do and what you represent. And it does come back around. And if it doesn't, that's fine, have another meeting.
But you learn so much about that person to actually secure that next meeting. That's right. That's right. When you go to a networking event or you're meeting somebody, you go with what's called a servant's heart. You go there looking to give, not receive. If everybody was going to go to a networking event or meet with somebody and they had that in mind, everything would be beautiful because what, as you said, what goes around comes around, or at least it should.
So if you put two people together and you refer two people, then one of those two people are gonna say you know what, Larry referred me. I have to find somebody for Larry. So what goes around does come around. But you don't, you shouldn't expect it if you're building up. Never expect it.
Relationships. Don't expect it. Don't expect it. Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, so you've said that we should stop showing up and throwing up when it comes to selling. What are some of the biggest mistakes professionals make when networking or pitching themselves? One of the biggest mistakes is they do show up and throw up, which really means it's all about themselves.
And so I met with an executive, virtually, had a really nice 45 minute meeting. It was over 43 minutes all about him, and it was challenging, but I'm a giver and I'm a good listener. I had asked questions and he didn't know anything about me, not where I lived. If I had a relationship with anybody, if I had kids, what I did for a li he knew nothing.
I think I squeezed something in. And what I squeezed in was one ask that I have, can you read my book? And I have a chapter on, takers Never win. And he reached back out and wanted to have another meeting. And so we had that meeting and, I said, what'd you wanna talk about? He said, I wanted to talk about you because I realized that reading your book, it was all about me and I want to make it about you.
And showing up and throwing up, and some of the mistakes people make is they're too eager. To talk about themselves and I try to counsel people. It's better if I can learn all about Michael and what you do, what you know, what you personally, where are you from, right? You can only go so deep, right?
You don't wanna get too personal, but hey, where'd you grow up? What'd you do? And guess what? On LinkedIn, everything's kind of fair game if it's out there. I saw this on LinkedIn. Can you tell me more about this? Or. The great thing you have ai, so you could pull up information about people. It's scraping.
Maybe double check, Hey, I saw this about you and this came up when I did some research. You better hope it truly is about that person, because it says I'm a grand master chess champion, but that's the wrong Larry Kaufman. So be careful. I'm not that good at chess. But I think the mistake is we don't ask.
Listen, we're just, we just want to sell, stop selling, and start learning about the other person personally, professionally and start to build a rapport relationship. Everything's gonna fall into place, so that's what I recommend. I agree. I agree. And every time. What I use personally is a word FORM.
That keeps me in line because it's family, occupation, recreation, and a message. So when I'm talking to Larry, I can bring up family. What you do for a living, what you do, what you like to do, any of the above, and you'll start talking about it because when you start talking about yourself or things you enjoy besides work, you really start talking about it.
And then your level of trust is going up and that barrier is coming down. Know you, like you, trust you. We'll do business with you. So know you well, of course you're a great guy. Like you. We're gonna narrow it down just a little bit, all right? Know you, like you, and then trust you. That trust is such a crucial factor that you have to build that trust.
And the only way you're gonna do it is I'm gonna have you talk about yourself. So that's it. I like that. Okay, so how do you balance giving without expecting? While being strategic in business, where's the sweet spot between generosity and growth? Look, there's so many hours in a day.
I'm in a corporate, leadership role, so that's my primary focus. But I feel that the giving, portion of what I do each week. It completes me, makes me feel good about myself. But sometimes that giving is with a prospective client of ours. My staff will come to me and ask me to help some of their prospective clients.
And maybe it's a spouse, significant other, or child. It could be a career, transition. It could be something else. And so that's some of that balancing act, right? That's tying into the business. I'm still getting to give and help, people. So I think, when I do presentations, my presentations aren't geared all towards sales.
It's really everything, but it's the main theme is building those relationships. And so there is a fine balancing act. And so yeah, if I give every day. And I don't do my job, hell, I have a lot more time to give 'cause I wanna have my job. You have your job. But I try to find ways to be giving during that course of each day, with what I do that may be business related and may be for my staff, for clients, and may be for other peers in the company.
Wouldn't you rather be known as a person who gives than a person is always trying to receive. Oh yeah, totally. Absolutely. So that should be first and foremost on the person's mind. Say, look, I want to be known. I wanna be known as a connector, I wanna be known. 'cause that's what I do every week. I have at least two people that I, or two instances that I put two people together.
This person needs this person needs that. Larry meet Keith, Keith meet Larry. He does this, you do this. I feel it's a great connection and I back away, right? And I let them do it. But I have, if I do that at least twice a week, I know that I am connecting and I'm giving, and it's all, and I don't ask for anything in return.
So it's just a way that you look at things, you're like my twin. Yeah. Okay, so tell us about a time when one powerful connection changed everything for you, and what made that connection possible. Really there's, I. There's so many, I think one, one powerful connection. We'll see how much time we have to, talk about this one powerful connection that, that changed.
A lot for me was actually with an executive I met in transition was A-A-C-E-O. And I met him in a coffee shop. I was actually with a gentleman who owned an executive search firm, and he said, Hey Larry, meet Mike. And he said, Mike is looking for his next CEO role. I just met him and we weren't sitting down with him.
I just met him in passing. I said, Mike, nice to meet you. And I said, Mike, I'd love to get together separately to see how I could help you. And I know you would do the same thing, but not everyone thinks that way, but that's the way that I do. Mike and I met a couple weeks later and we had a really good meeting, but I didn't know companies looking for a CEO and so I, I tucked that away 'cause sometimes you can't make that connection for someone right away, but you tuck it away and you think about it, it may come up at another time.
I had met a founder of a company, a, a CEO of a company. It was like a hundred million dollar company. And we were talking and he said, I have this business issue. And it's got my realm of expertise, but something that the CEO, when we got together, this other CEO looking for a job, he said something in our meeting and it was a trigger.
When I was meeting with this, founder of this company, I said, you know what? I said, John, I'm gonna connect you with my friend Mike and I think he could deal with this issue with, he has this expertise. I think he's gonna be able to help you out. And I connected them. So they met and they had a really good meeting.
'cause Mike called me and said, our meeting went for six hours. We had a great meeting and we ended up, going to his company. We looked at his books and next thing I know Mike was hired to be the president. Of his a hundred million dollar company. So that gentleman's the CEO.
Mike becomes the president. While Mike became a friend, he became a client, and Mike went through some change during that process. And was going through a divorce and I was helping someone network who was in private equity formally, who was in human resources. And that person was widowed.
Next thing I know, I put the two of them together to network and I thought there was something there. And those two. Ended up in a relationship. And so Mike is continued to be a long-term friend, was that, that was transformational for me. I helped someone that was in transition land, a job that went from a, running a 10, $15 million company to a hundred million dollars company that became a $200 million company and that's why he went back into transition and then I connected him into a relationship.
Long story Michael, but. Great story. It really was. It was really a great story. What does it mean to be indispensable in today's business world, and how does that tie into the way that we build and sustain relationships? So this is what I believe leave you, sell someone a product or a service, and there are competitors for your product or service.
And they come to you for the things they need related to what you've sold them. That's great. But if they come to you for something else outside of what you sell and market and they go, Michael, can you help me? My son is looking to get into medical school and is having trouble getting into this medical school.
Could you help me out? 'cause I did help someone. Advance the process or they couldn't get any responsiveness, couldn't get into this medical school. So what I'm trying to say is if the company in person, the decision maker, you have made a sale to only calls you, reaches out to you for what you sell in market, you're not building a deep relationship, you're not becoming indispensable.
But if you let them know upfront, like you know what? If you need anything outside of what I do, I want you to think of me as indispensable relationship of yours. So it could be someone's in transition, any kinda need, it doesn't have to fall in line with what I do. And when you have those clients starting to call you and reach out to you for other things, you're deepening the relationship and you're becoming more indispensable.
And so when that competing force knocks on the door to take the business away and they go, wait a minute. I worked with Larry Kaufman, he helped my wife get a job. He helped my brother get a job. He helped us, find a home over here. He did this. He got his, I couldn't find a good plumber.
Whatever it is. Larry is like my utility indispensable relationship. I don't care what you tell me, I'm not leaving. Larry and his company become indispensable and so indispensable to me is. You are able to communicate that upfront. I do that all the time, just myself because I'm not in a sales role in a leadership role, but the people I network with, I want them to know I'm indispensable.
How can I be helpful to you and those around you? But I do that for my staff and team and they know to come to me, and so I help them to become indispensable. You don't have to do it alone. You can have the Michaels and the Larrys who are connected and connectors to help you to become indispensable.
Very good. Very good. Because I suppose indispensable, you can look at it from the other side because those people become very loyal to you. Really price point doesn't come into it because you're not asking for money, you're not asking for anything. You're only giving your time and your expertise and knowledge and why not?
Why not come back to you and say, Hey, Larry, you know what? I have this problem. Could you help me? Yes, either you can find somebody to help them or you can help them, but the answer to that person would be yes. Yes. So they always think they come back to you. Okay, so a lot of people struggle with networking on platforms like LinkedIn.
What's one tip from LinkedIn, Larry, that can help people cut through the noise and connect with purpose? Look on LinkedIn, the people you're meeting with or want to meet with that are. Second degree to you, but the decision maker you'd like to meet with. I think it's important to see, do you have any shared connections that could be the pathway to that person?
You never know with your shared connections, how people know people and I, I had one that someone on my staff was trying to meet an executive and. I saw a lot of connections I shared in common with that executive, and so I said, let me check with my network and see if I can help to arrange an introduction or meeting for us with this executive at this big organization.
I reached out to one person. I knew only one I could have reached out to a lot. I just took a stab, reached out to, one person, his name's Matt, and I said, Matt, how do you know? Jeff at this company? He said I'm interested in getting introduced. He said, oh, I went to college with him.
We were roommates. We're friends today. We travel as couples, but I'm not gonna introduce you. I said, what? I said, what's going on? He said, I'm gonna call him and tell him he has to meet with you. How powerful is that, right? The, so I think figuring out who the shared connections are, but I also think a lot of people don't come prepared to a meeting and look at someone's profile.
And I'm talking about all aspects of the profile. And some profiles are great like yours and some are not as great, but sometimes there's something that seems in insignificant, but can be significant. So if I looked at someone's profile, nothing was there. I didn't have any shared connections, but the one thing I saw under the university said marching band.
Most would ignore that, but I would say, Michael, and I know this is not on yours, Michael, what instrument did you play when you were in the marching band? And you would be like, what are you talking about? How did you know I was in the marching band? Because you, you probably put that in a long time ago when you signed up on LinkedIn.
Didn't even think about it. 'cause no one else is asking, but Larry asked and you're never gonna forget me. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's those little things that you'll never be forgotten. Especially with. The follow up, and we're not even gonna get into the follow up because I feel that the follow up with somebody is more important than actually even meeting them.
But you do that something special, that something so different than everybody else, that of course they're gonna remember you and the way that you follow up with them. You always keep our. You're being top of mind. And I hate saying that top of mind, but that's the only thing I can think of right now. But if you do that one thing and you'll always be remembered for that, it's important.
Okay. So for someone just starting to grow their network, what's better deepening a fuel relationship or casting a wide net? I, we probably covered this already, but let's have it. I, casting a wide net is fine. I, for myself, look, I have roughly just under 30,000 LinkedIn connections, so it's, people are looking at me and Larry's saying, don't cast such a wide net, right?
I'll tell people, should you have, 10,000 connections, I think you should have a strong network of people, and trust. I. Even on a LinkedIn, depending upon your tenure in the business world, maybe it's 500, maybe it's a thousand, maybe it's 2000. I'm not saying you'll know 2000 exceptionally well, but enough to where they take a call, take a meeting with you.
I think what you want to have is that no, like trust relationship base. And so I think kinda keep it tight in my book, I call it inner circle outer circle. Your inner circle, yeah. They're your family. Sometimes your family really should be in your outer circle but inner circle the people that you really trust, that will go the distance for you.
And those could be people that they can be your clients. I have clients today that that we have with a firm that introduced to my staff that were clients of mine in the day. That's my, they're my inner circle, right? But I do have friends and family, so I think keep it tight. Keep it tight.
You're not gonna have 5,000 in your inner circle unless you're just amazing. I haven't seen that. It's also a little difficult to keep up, your inner circle you want to communicate with a little bit more often, but 5,000, 2000, even a thousand, it's very hard to stay up with that.
So you really have to be careful on who you think is in your inner circle. You're right. But that's very good. Okay. How does being a strong networker carry over into your personal life with your family, friends, and your community? I think what happens on, when you get to the family side and, I'm a strong networker connector.
I do get our friends sending me their kids. And I had someone who, was looking to get back into the dating scene after, widowed and it's like, Hey, could you have Larry fix me up? I'm ready. And so I it's good and bad. But it's nice that I become that, go-to that they, I built that reputation.
And, after I wrote the book I did go on Facebook. Now meta. And and I'm connected to friends there, and so they know, Hey let's ask Larry. So I've branded myself in the business world and carried it over into my personal world. That's good. That's good. And that really really answers it.
Okay, so let's bring this podcast full circle. And if you could leave listeners with one mindset shift that would make their networking more meaningful and profitable, what would it be? Let's just say, okay, mindset shift is don't make it about you, make it about the other person. And I'll share that with a question and it sounds, crazy.
I've done so many presentations and like you'll ask questions and I ask questions. And the one takeaway that people have told me quite a bit was these five words that they're not asking enough of or at all is, how can I help you? And I can't tell you how many conversations I have with people and I'm like, how could I help you?
And sometimes I know because I've asked so many questions, I already know how I'm gonna help them. Now it turns out I maybe add an extra word to it, like, how else can I help you? And, no, I'm good and I'm almost waiting for it just to see. They come back and go, Larry, I'm great. You're gonna do X, Y, and Z for me.
How can I help you? I can tell you it's probably one outta 10 people I'll talk to that will say that. And so if I could get more people to think that way and just ask the question. And some people are like, I don't know how I could help people. I don't have a big network. You know what it's just throwing it out there, asking that question is more than enough that just people will say it and everyone said, take you up on it.
It's rare and if someone does say something, you can try. It's rare that people ask, but I would love to see more people ask how I can, how can I help you? Every day. That's great. And if people would actually learn to do that, again, that's giving, not receiving. And if you can, one I'll leave you with this.
One thing that I say to a person whenever I network with him or with a person or a, a few people, I always end with, how can I make you more successful? How can I make a difference? How can I be a great referral source for you? And I usually say that before I even tell them what I do. And they're usually so blown away by it.
They're like I don't even know what you do yet. That's right. Just let me know. And then I'll go into the whole thing with the business cards and everything and writing on the back of the business card, what to do and everything else. But I always let them know I am here for you. So what can I do to help you?
I love it. Larry, this has been absolutely great, just the way I thought it was gonna go. I just wish we had another hour because I have another 20 questions to ask you, but if anybody would like to get hold of you either to be coached or to just to speak with you and get your feelings or philosophy on networking, how could they do it?
So definitely on LinkedIn. So Larry Kaufman in Chicago, all caps. So you can find me there. I would say, check me out on Amazon with the NCG factor. That's a way to get to know me. And guess what? I know it sounds crazy, but in my book I put my contact information, I. So I, I know I get a lot of crazy people coming after me, but hopefully some normal people will come after me too.
Yeah, hopefully. Hopefully. Larry, I can't begin to thank you enough for coming on my podcast. I think that this, you are a wealth of knowledge and I'm so glad to see there's somebody else out there such as myself that believes in your NCG. Thank you very much. Nice to meet you. Thanks for having me on your podcast, Michael, and nice to meet someone that thinks the way that I do.
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Henry Kaplan Century 21. When it comes to making the biggest financial decision of your life, leave it in the hands of a proven professional. Henry Kaplan Henry is a global real estate agent with Century 21, celebrating his 41st year in business. No matter where you're moving, Henry, has the right connections for you.
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Michael is a business networking expert specializing in enhancing professionals' networking and communication skills to drive profitability. As a leading authority in this field, he is highly sought after for his dynamic presentations and workshops. His extensive experience has consistently led to significant improvements in corporate profitability by empowering individuals and organizations to connect more effectively and efficiently.
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