Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections. An Interview with Mitchell Wilson and Michael A Forman
Welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building Profitable Connections, the show where meaningful relations- relationships become lasting opportunities, leadership shapes influence, and communication drives growth. Wow, I really screwed that up. Okay, I'm your host, Michael Forman. When people hear the word sales, they often picture persuasion, pressure, or closing techniques, but the last...
but the best sales professionals I've ever met have something else in common. They build trust, they ask better questions, they create confidence, and they understand that every sale is simply the outcome of a relationship that was built the right way. Today's guest brings a unique perspective on winning more customers, building business systems that create freedom, and making smarter decisions that lead to substantial growth.
But beneath all of that is a bigger conversation, how leadership values an international, I'm sorry, intentional relationships shape the way we do business, because great businesses aren't built by chasing every opportunity. They're built by creating systems that allow people to focus on what matters most, serving others well and building relationships that stand the test of time.
If you're ready to think differently about sales, about leadership, and the kind of business you really wanna build, this episode is for you. I'd like to welcome to my podcast today Mitchell. Mitchell, who is going to expand on everything I was just talking about, and he's a professional. So if you don't mind first, welcome Mitchell, welcome to the podcast, and just give me give us the Cliff Notes on how you got where you are today Hey, great.
Thanks for having me on, Michael. As I mentioned before, so I'm sitting in New Zealand right now for all you listeners out there, top of the South Island. So today my business is Coach Birds, and we help SME businesses simply, make more money and get more freedom in their business.
But how I got to where I am today, look taking me all back when I was a teenager, my parents, they had a business, and unfortunately, they went bankrupt. That affected me, my family quite a lot. And I was just sitting here thinking, "How did I why did I go into business after that, after seeing that?"
But I think it, it came back to really seeing how it could be done a better way or make sure it didn't happen to me and now to other people. My career, I started off in the bank and I got a really good grounding in, in, in sales, in that direction. And I guess I was the golden boy and moved up pretty quickly through the bank.
Selling mortgages was where it was, so there was sort of presentations, ways that we could actually sell to people there, and that took me through to a finance company that I started up alongside a, a car yard. And once again that's where I learnt to basically implement some of the systems that I'd learnt from other businesses to bring into that.
But of also sales as well. When I was doing that finance, especially for the car yards, I was very good at sales. Probably too good for my own belief system in terms of what we were selling, in terms of, some of the insurance products and that went with those car sales that, quite frankly, ended up being people paying more for those than they would for their car, which maybe didn't necessarily sit right for me.
So we had to pull that back a little. And then I I basically, I maybe had a little bit of a burnout there, but took a year off my early retirement, as I call it. I was still, I don't know, maybe in my 20s there. But I was, I was able to afford that at that stage, and went away overseas to Europe, came back, and I said, "Look, I don't know what I'm gonna do, but worst case scenario, I'll be a real estate agent."
And of course, worst case scenario came along, and that's what I become. So I started in real estate sales. I can tell you the first couple of years were pretty, pretty rough. And when I say rough, I was working a lot of hours. Probably those hours I was doing not the right things and just making probably under minimum wage when it worked out to be.
But then something clicked, and from that point on everything came together. I was able to become number one salesperson for my company in, in the country. I opened up my own real estate firm under another brand. I built up a team, so my team was number one. I was number one. We were doing things really right.
At that point, though, I was working. I was working really hard. And then I had a, a, a family my son came along, and I actually saw all these other agents that were older than me in the position where, I thought I would be, and they were all divorced, never seen their family on Christmas and all the rest.
And I just decided then and there I don't wanna be that. And so I was able to sell that business, and I started another business in a completely different industry, which was a gym. I have no idea why I started that. I looked at the business model. I'd never been into a gym before in my life.
But I was able to use those sales skills use the system skills that I learned to actually build up that business in a completely unknown industry to me to again be at least the best in the region with multiple studios going around. And once again, I was able to sell that business for seven figures again.
From my career in terms of building up businesses understanding sales, which was probably key to be able to some of these businesses get them up faster than what I thought, that's what led me to today, helping other people do the same thing. So small, medium businesses, service-based businesses, that's my jam.
Anywhere up to maybe 10 mil in, in revenue is what we're talking about, and that's what led us to talk here today, Michael. How about that? That, that, that's fantastic- Oh, I- ... because I believe we speak the same language, right? W- we're... I... Because that's what I teach, that's what I coach on. I go around the country, and I coach for the very same thing.
Okay, so let me get... I have a few questions for you. Many people treat networking and sales as separate skills. Do you believe the best sales professionals are simply the best relationship builders, and why or why not? While the, I guess in the similar bucket, we can classify, yes, I wanna do some networking or, and sales could be slightly separate, but they do bring the same skill set.
And when you were on your intro before, one of those things you said, "They listen." And I think being a good networker is really listening as well, which people forget. I- they go into a room and they pull out their business card, and they try and shake some people's hands, and that's great.
But to actually listen is building those connections to really be interested in people. And I think if you can do that in the networking environment, and if you can do that in the, the sales environment, whether you're one-to-one, be that online or in the living room or in the store or one-to-many it is which is a little bit harder when it comes to listen one-to-many, but but it's really figuring out the, what they're saying.
I believe when it comes to sales, Michael, gone are the days where you're a sleazy salesman trying to sell something. Look I don't agree with that. I don't... that's not the approach I think to winning. But I do think the approach is, one, listening, finding out what their needs are.
Presenting, "Hey, this is what I can do." So you do need to still ask that. So when you're networking, "Hey, Michael, great to meet you. What are you into?" "Hey, you know what? I actually am into the same thing. How about we connect?" And that's the kind of sense that I'd go down in terms of the networking.
So really listen. Yeah. In, in the networking world there's an 80/20 rule. The other person speaks 80% of the time, and you speak 20% of the time. A, because you're listening to what they have to say, but the 20% that you are required to speak of, you're figuring out questions to ask him about his 80%.
Okay? So it's always about the other person. It's always your listening skills, listening intentionally, listening intently, because you're thinking about what he is saying, not the next thing you wanna talk about, but what he is actually saying to you. Okay. Winning customers is often viewed as closing a deal.
How has your definition of winning changed as you've grown as a business leader? First of all, just a, a story comes to mind in terms of I was listening to, and this person was one of the best car salesmen in the, in their industry and what they were. And someone was trying to figure out what is it that they're doing differently?
And the difference that they had was when they approached that customer, their goal was not to close the deal. Their goal was to make sure that they close that customer's next deal, their next car. Now, by doing that, they weren't just trying to push something on them today. They were just trying to give them the best service that they could.
So if that particular car wasn't the one for them today, they sure damn right are gonna come to them for their next sale. So I think if that's a really good sort of mantra to go by that if you're just trying to close the sale today, great. It's exciting and all the rest, but you know what?
If you do just a good job, then the sales will come. And for me personally, when I was heavily selling, in terms of, real estate, when that was the case, I never really chased the sale or the win of any particular deal or go, "Hey, that's, that's another 20 grand, 10 grand in the bank."
It was always just do the job, and at the end of the week or at the end of the month, that's how much I got paid. It was never related to one particular sale. That's so true and you're right on so many points. Everybody wants to be the problem solver. That's a played out term.
"Oh, I'm a problem solver, and I'll solve all your problems." What I teach basically is, they have a problem here. You don't wanna meet them here. You wanna meet them here, right? So you're gonna solve their problem and walk with them forward, right? So you're always with them. You're always helping them.
You're there as an ear, right? If you wanna listen to them. So you wanna be a cohort. You want all of that. So if you're just solving the initial problem, yeah it helped them, but it's not helping both of you. So that's what I say. Okay. The marketplace is filled with automation and AI.
What human qualities still create the strongest customer relationships even when technology handles much of the process? Okay. I like what you said at the end there, that technology handles the process. The connection, I believe, still should be a human connection. Okay? So I am all for systemization.
I'm all for AI to a point. There still needs to be a point in your system where that human connection takes place. I, last Saturday, I went to a new burger joint in town, and hey I turned up there, and it was busy. There were lots of seats and everything, and the... There was a little window to the kitchen, but there was no counter even.
And I'm like, "Oh this is unique." There was a little iPad thing, and I just went up to the iPad. I ordered my burger, and I thought, "Oh, okay. Everyone looks happy. There's cold. It's pretty systemized. There's no people to stuff things up." But then I thought, "Oh, it probably would've been nice just to ask someone about, 'Hey, what do I think is, a good or best?'"
Now, in the end, with that process, a human being brought that burger to my table. I guess there could've been a robot for that nowadays, but she had a smile on her face. She said, "Hey, thanks for coming. Really enjoy these burgers." She made the difference to that ex- that experience as well. So they had it systemized.
The burgers were amazing, but it wasn't totally, I think that last touch that came involved made me feel good. So I think with any business yeah, definitely systemize it, as they probably did, but the, the human interaction is what's gonna trump anything. I don't wanna be sitting here on this podcast speaking to an AI I wanna be speaking to you, Michael.
You're more interesting. I like to think so anyway. I- you have to realize we're human beings, right? Human beings have a need to reach out and touch another human being. If in that, that whole automated process, if there was somebody in the beginning of the order as well as the end of the order, it may have made your time there spent a little bit better because you can ask a question, "How do you like this?"
Or, "Is that really this..." You can't ask all those questions. You have to just read it and accept it. And that's why I think- It could have been that there could have been one person that greeted people at the door to answer all the questions floating round the room. That could have been something as well.
Instead of just taking my order, just some presence that there is, some staff around here. Yeah. Okay. You help businesses build systems that create more freedom. How do strong systems actually allow leaders to become more present in their relationships instead of more distant?
So first of all, I just want to qualify what more freedom is. 'Cause some people just think freedom is more time, and maybe yes, it could be. But in terms of your business, I really think it's allowing the business to rely on you less is what freedom is, okay? Having that choice to turn up to the office and all the rest.
Now, when you've got less choices to make, less decisions to make, it can actually mean that you're actually more present with your team. It can mean that you can choose to be more present with customers, and actually allow that communication, allow yourself to look into the business and go, "How can we improve that?"
Like we just talked about that, you know, burger business before. We can sit there and actually have a look and go what can we do differently?" By building these systems into your business, likes of your automation and your AI to free things up, once we do that and look at the processes in place, it is one less thing that you need to do as a business owner.
When you delegate to your team and have the right team, and they have the authority to make those decisions that you've put the guardrails in place to be able to do, it's another thing that you need to think about less. It is early here, but I've still read some news today, and one of those articles was about decision-making.
And they were saying from some study, less decisions are better for us and our brain for whatever reason. I can't quote the study. It was something I read this morning. And someone said, I used to buy 30 T-shirts of the same color 'cause I liked them, and I thought that was great." But each morning it's just another decision that he had to make.
And the study proved that when people have less to choose from they ordered more. This was in terms of I think it was still clothing related, but it got me thinking maybe that's the same with restaurants as well. I go into a restaurant and there's 50 million things on the menu, and I can't decide.
Just give me a smaller menu maybe. But yeah. This would be very true. Yeah. So I guess coming back to that business owner and that freedom and stuff, the less decisions that you have to make the day i- in the day, the better. I believe Je- Jeff Bezos with his business and Amazon he just expects his top executives just to make that one decision that's needed, usually in the morning.
Any more than that, and it's too much. And so if you can get your business to a space where it is systemized, where you have more freedom, then you can either make better decisions or connect, connect more. And this is... Don't get me wrong, I'm ta- we're talking about big business here with those one decisions a day, but the same can be done with, SME businesses and whatever you're doing.
Yeah. That's very true. And I'm a, a former restaurant owner, and I can tell you that when you have a menu with 50 items or you have a single menu front and back with items, there's no question about it, the smaller menu wins because they will order more off the smaller menu than off the larger menu. Oh, my theory was right.
So that goes- How about that? Ab- a- absolutely. Absolutely. And people with less choices... some people say that's it? That's all you got?" That... you know what? They'll sit there and they'll pick. They'll pick the the main course, they'll pick the appetizer, the dessert, a drink, and everything else.
Whereas for the bigger menu, they may not order all that. So it goes without saying. And I learned something from my mom a long time ago. She was a director in a big housing authority, and she ran that office so well that if she went on vacation for a week it would still go on, right? So she would have that running so well.
She would have to come back and take care of problems of course, but she wouldn't have to worry about leaving for a certain amount of time. If I left in my small business would stop, you have to make it to that point. So that's a very good point that you were making, and I just wanted to say that I have lived through everything that you're talking about.
So it's absolutely correct. One of our one of our challenges for our boardroom members is actually the 100-day challenge, which is to take 100 days off And come back to a business that is still running and flourishing, like growing and the rest. So I love that challenge, and it's a, it's scary Yeah, it is.
Yeah, it is. But- I can imagine ... it's doable, yeah. Okay. Okay, we'll see about that. When you meet a business owner, what behaviors immediately tell you they're in a building a bus- sorry, that they're building a business around values rather than just chasing revenue?
First of all, I love the fact that someone's building it around values rather than just chasing it. I really respect that. I was in Wellington last week. So it's the capital of New Zealand, and they've got a, a beautiful waterfront. And it was early in the morning, we're walking along the pier, and I was really hanging out for a coffee.
And, and it's at the first coffee shop that came along into the building, and I went in there. And I looked at their cups and everything on there, and he goes... Oh, I said, "Oh, have you got a takeaway cup?" And he's like, "Oh we've got the recyclable ones there on the wall that you can use, and you need to bring them back."
And I said, "Oh that's not gonna work for me, 'cause I'm out of town. I'm heading that way. I'm not gonna be coming back here." And he's like sorry." You know what? It didn't really annoy me. I actually respected his values for doing it. Whe- whether it's a smart business financial decision, maybe not.
Who knows in the long run? You may have the, the built up of those customers. But I can tell you that business owner that I met just then values were key to him. Okay? Yeah. Yeah. And I... That would be detrimental for me. I'm an avid coffee drinker. And if they don't have a to-go cup, as we would say it- then the, give it to me in my hands. I need coffee. I need something. And if they said sorry, I would be very upset. So you took it a lot better than what I would've taken it. You know what? I just, from that question, I respected that he put his values above everything.
What you will find, though, is people that do have the right values, especially when it comes to maybe selling, that they don't overpromise, just plain out lie. There are some people out there that will just do anything for a sale. I don't respect that one bit. I believe that if you do the right job, it'll come back.
And as we were saying before, even if you don't sell them on that day, it'll come back to you. And that, that's- They will, their friends will, or else. Yeah ... that's true. If you're operating with a servant's heart, and you're trying to make it better for everybody else, there's no doubt that they'll come back, or the majority of the people will come back.
Leadership requires making difficult decisions. How do your personal values guide you through when growth and integrity seem to pull in different directions?
I guess in terms of that, that value, okay coming back and in integrity, that is something that, you know I like to play by the rules. And I would like to think that there's a whole lot of integrity that becomes behind it. You know how I told you that story? This is many years ago when I worked at the, the, doing the finance for the cars, okay?
And I could get the finance ... I remember getting finance for someone, and the deal at the time was probably gonna put $5,000 in my pocket, which was pretty big at that time for one deal. But it was like a, a younger couple. They were buying a car that was just a racey car that you knew they were gonna crash and all this kind of stuff.
Their jobs weren't that great, but I was able to do my job to get that finance. But I had to sit there and I said, "Before we sign the paperwork," I pushed it aside, and without the boss or anyone knowing I said, "Look, we can actually do this. All we need to do is sign this paperwork. However, I strongly recommend you do not do this.
This is way too expensive for you guys, and you will regret it after the case." That, that was something that that I valued at the time. All, all the way back then. I would've been, young. Yeah. I'll tell you what, though. They still signed it. Okay. That was my question. That was my next question.
Yeah. Yeah. Did they buy the car? Okay. You can bring a horse with, to water, but you can't make him drink. Yeah. But at least I did the right thing, okay? So you need to put some values in there and, like I said, it doesn't mean you're going to lose anything. They could have told 10 friends, "You know what?
Hey, this guy was really good to us," and or it could have been slightly less. The money shouldn't be the goal. That, in fact, the, the helping people should be the goal. The thing is, the people in this world, these people that help more people make more money Absolutely.
That's what it comes down to. Absolutely. Yep. As a business becomes more efficient through technology, do you think empathy, curiosity, and emotional intelligence will become even more valuable? And why? Yes. Look as, as technology is taking over so many things, okay? And we're saying, look, technology is not gonna be taking over trades jobs, and then I look on my feed yesterday, and there was some robot doing some, some manual labor work, and I thought, "Oh my gosh."
But when it comes down to it, that, that empathy w- what we have as, as human beings, we need to be the director of these things, okay? And so it is gonna be more and more important to do this as some of these skills, some of these jobs, some of these tasks that traditionally we would have had to do are getting, taken over by, by these tools.
But it's it's happened throughout all, all the case. We went from fax machine to email and then the internet. Can you imagine life without the internet now? Yeah. I will tell you, we would not be having this conversation, so it has- No ... opened up opportunities as well.
So I do believe that there'll just be more opportunities. We do need to stay aware and conscious of what they could be, and just go towards those opportunities. But look, these are tools. They're better tools in some case, so use them. But of course okay, if we are using these tools, what does the future look like, and how are we gonna use them ourselves?
And if you look at AI just as a tool in your toolbox, then you'll be fine. Just like- ... when the car first came around, and yet all the horses and all the, everybody, the shoeing the horses, all those people lost their jobs when the car came around, but then they created different jobs, so you just have to look at it that way. Okay, so let's bring this podcast full circle. If a listener wanted to build a business that created both financial success and a lasting reputation over the next decade, what daily habit would you tell them to develop first? First of all is actually creating those habits and doing them.
A lot of business success becomes from doing the boring stuff consistently. Okay? Habits are key. Like motivation, okay, mindset is great. We need that to kick us off. But motivation is only gonna take us so far. Okay? You're gonna wake up in the morning one day and you're like, "Oh my gosh, not again," or, "Oh, I'm just not feeling it today.
Ugh." But if we have the habits in place, and these habits are gonna be different for different businesses. For example, one habit could be for some kind of business is to make it's networking you talked about. So it could be, you know what? I'm going to reach out to at least one new person a day to network with them As an example.
So that could be a habit, but just wanna hone down that point, that, that consistency of that habit is what actually matters most, that it's not just one and done. I spoke about- Do that year upon year, build those year upon year. Yeah I spoke about this morning in a chamber of commerce meeting, consistency and persistence, two big factors that you have to...
If once you get that down, once you are consistent in your message, and you're persistent until the person says no, but consistency and persistence will get you through so much before, you get bogged down with something else. Mitchell- I, yeah ... I gotta tell you, you were a great- you were a great guest.
You were just, you answered everything. You expanded on everything. I loved listening to your stories. If somebody wanted to get hold of you, wanted to be mentored by you, buy something from you, or just call you to say hi, what's the best way to, for them to get a hold of you? Hey, look, you're gonna find all our details at Coach Birds, all one word, so coachbirds.com.
We do offer a free breakthrough session. We'll have a chat together and really just figure out whether we can help or how we can help. If not, we'll definitely point you in the right direction as well. So coachbirds.com is gonna have everything, free tools and, links to LinkedIn and all the rest in there as well.
Perfect. Perfect. Today's conversation reminds us that business growth isn't about getting more customers. It's about becoming the kind of leader people want to follow, the kind of company that people wanna work with, and the kind of professional people that they're proud to recommend. The best systems don't replace relationships.
They protect them. They create the freedom to listen more closely, serve more consistently, and spend more time with people that matter most. Here's your challenge this week. Don't just ask yourself how can you make more business more ef- your business more efficient? Ask yourself, does this create a better experience for the people I serve?
Because the strongest systems are built around people, not just processes. If you found value in today's episode, make sure you like, subscribe to Networking Unleashed, Building Profitable Connections so you continue getting practical insights on networking, communication, leadership, and business growth.
And if this conversation challenged you the way you think about sales and success, share it with a business owner, a sales leader, or entrepreneur in your network. If you're looking for a keynote speaker, executive communication coach, or workshop leader to help you organize, strengthen communication, build trust faster, and turn conversations into a measurable business result, visit michaelaforman.com.
So until next time, remember this: the strongest businesses don't win because they have the best pitch. They win because they build trust, lead with integrity, and create relationships that people choose to return again and again. Mitchell, I wanna thank you again for, you're just a great guest on the podcast.
Thanks very much, Michael
A huge thank you to our guests for sharing such incredible insights today. And of course, a big shout-out to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in and spending your time with us. If you're interested in my digital courses, being coached, or having me come and talk to your company, just go to MichaelAForman.com and fill out the request form.
Remember, networking isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. So take what you've learned today, get out there, and make some meaningful connections. If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share it with someone who could use a little networking inspiration.
Let's keep the conversation going. You can find me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my website, michaelaforman.com/podcast.
Michael is a business networking expert specializing in enhancing professionals' networking and communication skills to drive profitability. As a leading authority in this field, he is highly sought after for his dynamic presentations and workshops. His extensive experience has consistently led to significant improvements in corporate profitability by empowering individuals and organizations to connect more effectively and efficiently.
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