Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections. An Interview with Nathan Turner and Michael A Forman

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Welcome to Networking Unleashed, building Profitable Connections. The show that takes you takes the guesswork out of building relationships that move the needle. I'm your host, Michael Foreman, and today we're stepping into the world of note investing where the right connections can mean the difference between a dead deal and a career defining win.

But today's conversation isn't just about real estate paper and portfolios. It's about how to network when you're really not naturally outgoing. What do you do when you walk into a room full of people and don't know a soul? How do you create real relationships that drive results without being salesy or loud?

My guest today has a built in has built a name in the note investing space, not by chasing every handshake, by mastering the power of intentional, authentic networking, if you've ever. If you've ever felt overwhelmed by networking events, unsure of what to say or just wanna sharpen your strategy, this episode is for you.

I'd like to welcome to the podcast Nathan Turner, and he's an expert in his field, and I don't wanna say more than that because I don't wanna mess anything up. Sure. Nathan intro, welcome to the podcast and just give us a little bit about your background. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. This is great.

And as you're doing your intro there, I just think back in my mind of all the different conferences, we'll get into that. But anyway, we'll we'll get into that. So I've been a note investor for the last 15 years and probably most people listening to this have never heard of that. And that's fine.

I hadn't either. It's a relatively small niche. What it means is I buy residential mortgages. So I'm in the real estate world ish. All of the mortgages, of course are backed by the real estate, but I'm not actually buying the real estate. I'm buying the loan attached to the real estate.

So I am in a way, I'm concerned with the real estate itself, but ultimately I'm just buying the loan and I step into the role as the bank. That's great. Alright. And coming from, I have a mortgage background so I really I know what you're talking about and I can feel your pain. But let's see if we get into that during these questions.

So lemme start out by saying, in the world of note investing what role has networking played in getting deals, building partnerships, or expanding your reputation? Ugh, that is key. Like I, it's hard to overstate how important that is because it's such a small niche. It really, more than any business that I've ever encountered, it is so much about relationships.

So it, it really matters. A who you know, and then b who knows you. And so that just makes such a huge difference. I've been able to have deals come to me. Simply because of the relationship where literally the person on the phone says, Hey I'm giving you a call. I know that this is something that you typically look for.

This is what you're looking at. These are the last few in this portfolio that I'm trying to clean out. I called you first because I know that you're the guy that can get it done. And I, we've done deals before in the past, so are you interested in this? And I get, really great pricing and all these different things simply because of the relationship, not because of anything else but relationship number one.

Absolutely. And today's day. I listen, I base everything on networking and the relationships that I've built. But you have to turn it around a little bit because you don't, you can't, you're not trying to establish your network. You're trying to establish whose network you are in oh, that's if you look, yeah, if you look at it from that point of view.

'cause anybody could expand their network. Sure. But you could, you have to look at it and say, okay whose network am I a part of? That's a whole different way of looking at it. Yeah. Yeah. When you walk into a room full of people, what's your personal strategy and what's going through your mind? It is shifted a little bit over time recognizing that this business is all about relationships.

I remember the first note conference I went to. I, totally overwhelmed. I don't know a soul. I don't know anybody in the room. But I went in with the goal of I want to hand out 20 business cards. And that was it. That was like the number. I didn't want anything else. That was it. I want to hand out 20 business cards and for me, that's a big deal.

I'd rather I, and most people, we would rather just not talk to anybody and stay in our little corner. But that was me, is I want to meet people. I know that's a big part of this business, so I'm gonna hand it out. 20 business cards today, that's shifted a little bit because now I have become known in the industry.

And so people often will come up to me and talk. So now I'm looking before I ever even go to the conference, almost always. In fact I will look at, see who's attending. Is there somebody there that either I know that I need to talk to to be able to further whatever business prospect or anything like that.

Or b, is it somebody that I don't know that I would really like to know? Because I think that we can do something as far as, working together in the future. So it shifted a little bit. Now I'm much more strategic about it in the beginning. It's just anybody. I just wanna introduce myself.

That, that's actually a very good way of thinking about it. So when you go to these networking events and you look at who is going to be there, do you touch them on, let's say social media? Do you reach out and say, hi, how you doing? I see you're going to X, Y, Z conference. So am I. I'd love to meet up with you.

Yeah, for sure. Either on social media or the, oftentimes the conference will have whatever app they're using. So there's a way that you can start those conversations before. I highly recommend doing that 'cause that you can start that relationship before you even set foot in the door.

Yeah. A absolutely. And I ever since the pandemic, I feel that networking is more relationships instead of transactional. Yes. And whereas beforehand, I have three widgets, I wanna sell 'em for $2, and you wanna buy 'em, it's very transactional and the more the merrier.

You're building a customer list now. You are building a relationship list and that list is much smaller, but much more powerful. Much more powerful. Totally agree. Yeah. As someone who identifies as more introverted and what are your go-to moves to make strong connections without burning out?

Yeah, like I say, I would much rather just stay at home, watch a movie. That's my idea of a good time most of the time. But really for me it comes down to just the realization this is how the business is done. You have to get to know people. And I know that's uncomfortable. I haven't been there, but, so when I go into the room, for example, I'll walk in and it's breakfast and they're serving something out there.

Oh, I would like nothing more than just to take my pastry and then just retreat into some unknown corner in the, darkened room somewhere else. But I purposely go up to either one other individual or two or three even. And I force myself to just be like, no, this is how it's done. You can do this.

20 seconds of courage. Go. And I go up and, hi, how are you guys doing? And the reality is, I don't know that I've ever had it where people say, ah, you're not welcome here. You know what I mean? That doesn't actually happen. People are more than happy to chat with you. Yes they are. And do you have a few icebreakers that you can share with my audience?

Like when you walk up to the people, what do you say to them? Generally I'll walk up and I'll just say, Hey, yeah. Simple stuff, is this your first time here? How do you know the organizer? What do you do for work? Oftentimes it's asking them about themselves. That tends to, everybody likes to give some kind of an introduction.

If they don't, maybe you don't want to talk to them anyway but any kind of, just, you know, i, gosh, you can even talk about the weather if you need to and be like, man, it's sure hot out there. Even that anything would crack the ice well, except in Canada doesn't get that hot. I always say, whenever I go to a networking event, there's always somebody staying next to the wall or staying apart from everybody.

And I always try to be the person that walks up to them and breaks the ice. Yeah. And you don't start talking business. That's the world's worst thing you can do, right? So when you walk up to 'em, comment on their blazer, on their shoes, on 'em, and say, wow, that's a neat blazer. Where'd you get that from?

Or those, wow, I like those shoes. Yeah. Something to get them to start talking. And when they start talking, obviously the walls come down and yeah. Where are you from? How long have you been here? Absolutely anything. Yeah. You know anything, just to keep them talking and then after a while that they're having a good time.

Now I'm an extrovert. Okay. Yeah. So it's easier for me to do that than you or somebody else. Like an introvert. Yeah. But that's always a good philosophy. Yeah. Okay. So can you share a time when a single connection opened a major door for you in your note investing career? Oh, absolutely. Gosh. If all else fails, if you're going to a conference, there's gonna be vendors out there. The vendors literally paid. To be there to talk to people. So at the very least you can talk to them. I can't tell you how many times and I make sure I make a point to talk to every vendor every time I go to anywhere.

'cause you never know. I can't tell you how many times I've started a conversation, oh, you do what? Is that the service provider. Oh, interesting. And that is literally something that I have been looking for. Something that I need anything from, somebody who's got deals for sale somebody who's got money that they're looking to place, anything like that over and over again.

It's hard to even pick one specific one. Let me pick one. So met a gentleman, this was years ago. And met him as we were going off to lunch. Same kind of thing, just randomly I just started a conversation, Hey, where are you from? He had an accent, so I asked him about that. He's Austrian, we started try chatting about this and that.

Over the course of getting to know each other and everything else, he ended up investing a significant amount of money with me. And we've been business partners for many years since then. Very simple. We started going to lunch and then all of a sudden it turns into a whole lot of money that we're both making now.

It doesn't take a whole lot for you to be nice. Be nice, be open. Listen, if you're getting a bad vibe, I do everything with vibes. If you're getting a bad vibe, you can cut that conversation short and go your separate ways. But more times than not, when you're speaking with him and you say, look, I'm gonna look, you want to join me?

And that starts a whole conversation. And you're right. You never know where it's going to take you. You happen to be fortunate where you've built a relationship with this guy and you've made money. Yeah. But even if it's just a friend or somebody else you could talk to or something else, it's always good to extend that hand or extend that olive branch to go.

Definitely. Yeah. What would you tell someone who walks into a room thinking, I don't belong here? I've certainly done that, and recently, in fact, so last year I was at a conference where they were talking about it as a different kind of loan. It's called A-D-S-C-R loan based on income of a property, and that it is not in my wheelhouse.

It's not something I typically do. I was actually asked to be a moderator of one of the panels there. This is not my world, so I definitely felt like a fish out of water. But you know what? I it's still, it's related enough and at the base level, we're all humans. We're all people. We're all just trying to make our way in the world.

Base level, we can talk about, family, we can talk about kids, we can talk about, issues we're having with our kids at school, whatever it is there, there's all kinds of things that you can relate upon no matter what. So I understand feeling like you're the fish outta water and you're way out of your league or over your head or anything like that.

At the end of the day, they're just people just like you. So at the very least, you can just talk about people things. Absolutely. And I, I remember. Something called FORM, family, occupation, recreation, and a certain message that you can get onto the same level as him because people love to talk about themselves, about their family.

And I used to coach. Baseball. 16 years, I was three years as an umpire. I, so if I get them onto that youth sports level, then I'm golden and I'll ha and they love to talk about their kids. And so they're talking, talk and talk and talk. And so what's happening is that, that wall is coming down, that trust level is going up, and then that opens up a whole bunch of other things, right?

But one thing I. Always do is after I've built up that trust value and I turn it into their occupation, because I have to know what you do. I say, you know what? I like you and I like the way you do business. How can I make you more successful? How can I. Be a good referral source for you. Yeah.

And they're usually blown away by that. You say, Michael, I don't even know what you're doing yet. And I said that's fine. You can go through the exchanging of the business cards and the follow up. I have a whole separate secret sauce for follow up. But yeah, to get you to that point you're giving, not getting.

You always go to a networking event where you think to give, what can I do for this person, not what can they do for me? That's always, it's called the givers game. Yeah. Okay. So how do you follow up after networking events in a way that feels natural and build real relationships? It could be a number of things.

If it's somebody that I really want to, it's something that maybe we've identified that we can work together on. I'll see if we can schedule a phone call. And a zoom call is great. I prefer that if we can make that happen, but at the very least it's an email. And I'm careful about this because I see this fall off so often where you've met all these people, you've got, this pile of business cards or whatever you've got, and.

And then you never talk to him again. And man, what a shame. You've just made these connections and then it's just going to nothing. So at the bare minimum, they get an email just saying, Hey, it was great to meet you. Let's see if we can do something together in future, something related to the conversation.

What I do actually is on any, I prefer business cards. I know a lot of people are going digital these days. I still prefer the card because I will take that card and then on the backside I'll write some notes about our conversation or about who that person is or something like that. So that I have something to refer to later.

So when it's just like that digital. Beep, there's no opportunity to put any kind of notes in there. And so I definitely prefer the cards, but anyway, I'm old school. No, that, that is perfect. And that's one of the things that I teach is on the back of the business card, I add just a few things.

I had today's date, the name of the function. And something you spoke about. Yeah. And then I have a whole series of emails from the first night to the next morning to three days later, and so on, so forth. But the most important way, I'm just gonna give this to you, right? Yeah. If you meet somebody you really want to, they send 'em an email and say, thank you for meeting with me the next morning.

Send them a handwritten thank you note. A handwritten go out and buy. I have 50 of 'em in my briefcase. Yeah. A thank you card just right. I want to thank you for meeting with me. Had a great time. We spoke about X, Y, Z, Nathan, and put your business card in it and send it off because, no, that's good.

Think it. Think about what they are thinking in three days, because that's what I figured the mail's gonna take, right? Yeah. In three days, they're gonna receive this note card from you as a thank you. Open it up. And it's not a bill, it's not an invoice, it's not anything else. It's just a Thank you. It's handwritten, it's personalized.

Yeah. So they it just took you from here to here. Yeah. Yeah. Not even trying. Oh, that, that's great. So that's a little, yep. Just put a little notation down. And if you start doing that, every one of my clients, every single one of them, I have them do that in their follow up technique. I have a stack of thank you cards.

'cause they make them all send me one. Okay. And I have a stack like like this big, yeah. And, I want you to write me a thank you card the same way as you would write one of your clients. Yeah. That's great. And the next week we would discuss it. So that's a little thing.

Little thing in your cap. Good one. Yeah. Yep. I have a whole secret sauce on follow up from the very first one to the last one. Giving them an out, not giving them an out and everything, but it, that's a whole different thing. Okay. That's good. How do you balance networking for opportunity with networking for authenticity, and are they the same in your view?

Ooh, great question. I have adopted the mindset that opportunities everywhere and so I would rather. Create a relationship first, and if an opportunity comes great and again, so often it comes out of somewhere I never would've thought of. So here's an example. So I met somebody, this was before I even started in real estate.

We had a Curves franchise. So it was a gym for women. Met somebody who said that they had cleaning products that they could offer, that we could use at our gym. I said, great, let's have a meeting. We will set it up and we'll talk. In the course of a conversation. She was pitching me on Melaleuca.

It was a multi-level marketing thing. No. Yeah. And I, which is great I didn't have any interest in that. My father-in-law already did that. So if I was gonna join, it was gonna be under him. But in the course of that conversation, she said something about real estate being really hot in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.

And if you don't know where that is or you don't know how to say it, that's fine. Most people don't. And I thought, really? 'cause my dad was born there, I'd been there and it's, small city, barely a city, and it's in the middle of the prairies, nothing around it. Really Saskatoon. You sure?

So actually it intrigued me. So I, and, locked that away and that was it. That she just had that one line. And I thought, really? Huh? And it was later that I had had the thought to call a friend who lived out in Saskatoon and said, Hey, so tell me about real estate. And he's you mean sca?

Boom. And I'm like, you're kidding me? And this is back, oh 5 0 6 and sure enough things were going nuts there. That started me on real estate. So this meeting that we're having about cleaning products that ended up being a melaleuca pitch on 'cause something completely different that had nothing to do with real estate whatsoever.

But one line set me on a path that has now served me for the last 20 years. And it all because of a conversation I was willing to have with somebody just building a relationship, not looking for an opportunity, but ended up happening. You know that should show you something that first of all, you never know where it's gonna come from.

But your mind, your mindset was open to any and all opportunities that are out there. Yeah. So if you weren't, if you didn't have that mindset, you would've picked up on that. You would've just gone ahead and said, oh, this is another Melaleuca thing. And thank you. But no, thank you.

But because I was a Melaleuca agent myself. Okay. Unless your mind was open to it, you would've gone right past it. But it's because you've changed and your mindset was open. You said, oh, okay. Let me check on that. Yeah, you checked on that and of course it set your path. So it was a very good thing.

You listened. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What's, I love this question. What's the biggest networking mistake you've made or seen others make in this industry? Ah, interesting. That's a great question. I think that probably the biggest make mistake I would say is that, as much as we're all looking to expand, we're all looking, to see what comes next and all that.

I think that if it's all about if it feels like you're after something, then it's disingenuous and it doesn't work and. It repels people in a way. And so I think that's a big one is hitting so hard with trying to pursue whatever opportunity that you have in your mind. I think that can really have people stand off and, put their guard up and say, eh, not that guy.

I'm not so sure. I think that's a big one. Yeah. Let's bring this back to the beginning of the podcast. Where we said a givers game, where you should think to give before you get, and the biggest mistake now, I was in a, I was in a mortgage for 12 years. Yeah. I made all the mistakes that you had to make.

I, yeah. I learned by the school of hard knocks, I learned what not to do because I did them. And the first thing that I did whenever I went to a networking event was I opened my mouth. I started to talk and I started to see how many people I could, get in front of, for me to tell what I'm doing, yeah. And what I can get from them. And that is 100% the wrong thing to do. Yeah. The first thing you do is shut up. You don't say a word. Yeah. You listen. And you see what you can do to give and all, that takes all the pressure off your shoulders. Yeah. Yeah. All the pressure. And all of a sudden you realize that if you do that enough, what goes around comes around.

And you'll get your opportunity. Definitely. Yeah. So you know it, listen, as long as you have the right mindset, it will happen. Yeah, it will definitely happen. Yeah. Okay. So what are one to two questions you use to spark meaningful conversations quickly with someone you just met? One that I like is, so tell me about yourself.

That's a very super open end. Open-ended, and they can take it wherever they want. They, if they want to start talking about. I was born here on a stormy night. That's great. But or if they wanna start going into business right away Sure. But tell me about yourself. I that, I like that one a lot 'cause it's just really open-ended and people can take it wherever they want.

You actually, you can actually see where their head is at. Because if they immediately start talking business then they don't have that giver's gain attitude. They don't have. To see what they can do for somebody else. They're all about themselves, so that helps you take a look at them saying, okay, I don't wanna do business with him, or her, or whatever the case may be.

But that's probably a very good question, just to see where they go, yeah. So it's very good. Yeah. Okay, so let's bring this podcast full circle. Yeah. For the introverts listening who feel drained by traditional networking, what's your version of doing it on your terms? On my terms for me it's about the goal setting and it's just get out there and meet people and maybe try.

I as much as you're trying to accomplish, a certain set of goals or something like that, or you're trying to have a certain kind of conversation, I think, let go of that and just relax. Talk to people and as you talk to people, you'll find the right ones and the conversations will come around to whatever it is you're trying to talk about or you'd like to talk about.

But just talk to people. Don't try to talk to prospects, don't try to talk to targets or something like that. Talk to people. And then all of that comes back to you. You're absolutely right. Absolutely. 100% correct, because you always have to, like I said, take it from the other person's perspective.

You, they listen. Either their kids got sick in the morning, they had to do something at school or Yeah. Their brains could be somewhere else. You don't know, but you have to ease into that. And make them. It's the same as talking on Zoom, yeah. They say, oh, zoom, you could talk to anybody.

You know what? I have to think Nathan is a person behind the camera. And you have a thousand other things going on except for tubing doing this dopey podcast, right? So you can do anything. But I have to remember that you are a person if you're meeting a if you're interviewing somebody or so, you have to turn that camera around, say.

Wait a minute. That's a person. Yeah. Let me see what they're all about. Yeah. Nathan, I can go, probably go on for two more hours. Sure. Just speaking to you about all of this, because we seem to be on the same page with 99% of it. Yeah. I would venture to say a hundred percent of it, but that's going a little bit too much.

Who knows? If somebody wants to get hold of you either for the note investing or just to talk to you or ask you a question. Yeah. What's the best way to get hold of you? Best thing to do is go to my website, earnest investing.com. There's the contact me thing there. That's really the simplest way is just to get that going and then send me a message.

And like he said I'm more than happy to talk to people about. Business about life, whatever. I'm not too complicated. I make a concerted effort to be simple. So if you wanna just talk about simple things, great. If you just wanna meet, awesome. If you wanna talk more about business things, fantastic.

We'll do that too. Outstanding out. Nathan, this was a wonderful podcast. I thank you for coming on and I hope to talk to you soon. Hey, thank you so much.

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 A huge thank you to our guests for sharing such incredible insights today, and of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in and spending your time with us. If you're interested in my digital courses being coached or having me come and talk to your company, just go to MichaelAForman.com and fill out the request form.

Remember, networking isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. So take what you've learned today. Get out there and make some meaningful connections. If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share it with someone who could use a little networking inspiration.

Let's keep the conversation going. You can find me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my website michaelaforman.com/podcast.

Michael is a business networking expert specializing in enhancing professionals' networking and communication skills to drive profitability. As a leading authority in this field, he is highly sought after for his dynamic presentations and workshops. His extensive experience has consistently led to significant improvements in corporate profitability by empowering individuals and organizations to connect more effectively and efficiently.

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