Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections. An Interview with Nikhil Raval and Michael A Forman

Welcome to Networking Unleashed, building Profitable Connections. If you've wondered how leaders bring out the best in people for every generation, this conversation is going to grab you. Today's guest works with the Gen Z boomers, millennials, and everyone in between. He doesn't play favorites, he listens challenges, and brings out talent that was hiding in plain sight.

He has shaped leaders who went from struggling with communication to becoming strong influences within their companies. He knows how to handle conflict without turning the room tense. He coaches decision makers to work smarter with people who you think behave and communicate differently.

What I love about his approach, it's simple, it's theory, it's real, it's practical, and it works. I'd like to introduce Nick Hill, Val Ra, I'm sorry I butchered your last name. I always do that, but I'd like to welcome you to the podcast. Why don't you give us a little bit of background and tell me how you got here today.

Thank you Michael. And that's a very kind introduction and so my story is really broken into two buckets. I grew up in Asia, in India for maybe the first 15 years, and then I migrated to the US and spent many years there. Doing education, working there for, a good decade in the financial services industry.

And then in 2002, I went back, came back to Asia as it was growing and, things were happening and I said to myself, I'll do just about anything, but I won't foray into teaching or training or consulting. And, sometimes. Life takes you to a path that, the path that you resist the most.

And so there I was, I had an opportunity I dabbled into teaching, training, consulting. And in my last role I was the MD of a company where we built leadership solutions. Four, leaders very experienced leaders, people with 15, 20, 25, 30 years of experience across Asia. So I've got a fantastic ringside view of what are companies grappling with, what do leaders have to do?

And in 2018, I think I think I'd done enough and seen enough. So I went to the dark side, which is go on my own. And, I had a chance to finish all my bucket list, which was to, did I deliver a couple of TED talks? I managed to do that and write a book, which I learned how to do that.

So I was on Gen Z and then from the Gen Z book, Michael, I really what I noticed is that a lot of my consulting work is that it isn't just the Gen Z, it's their bosses and, people around the whole ecosystem are also all part of that. That led me to write the second book, which is on multi-generations.

And like you, I'm fortunate to have run another podcast which is called Working with Gen Z, which is fairly popular globally ranked among the top two, three Gen Z podcast input. So here I am. That's great. And I, like I said, I've seen the videos of your podcast. I was fortunate enough to be on the podcast.

But you have a huge following and everybody really pays attention to what you have to say. So whatever you're doing it well and just keep doing it. Okay. I have a few questions for you. You work closely with Gen Z and other generations, what's one misconception that keeps people from connecting effectively at work?

So Michael let me ask and let's just to put this as a sort of a what if scenario, let's say if if I had to design a TikTok or a LinkedIn campaign in your company who would be the person that you're gonna hire. There's a good chance that you're probably thinking of someone maybe in their twenties thinking that, you know what?

That person over there, I think he or she will do a good job. And even while this may be just in your mind there is probably you made a kind of subconscious decision of saying that, you know what? There is a one young person who's good at this and this. Probably a another experienced person in my team who may not like technology and who may not be good with technology.

So I guess the first place that we often stumble into this whole multi-generation conflict zone or situation where people, start thinking about, okay, hey, here's my boss and this is what's happening, is the stereotypes that we carry about each other. And I can go on, but, the stereotypes are just that they are stereotypes, right? I think generations have existed for many years in our personal life. We've had to deal with our parents and our grandparents, right? And so they come from different generations. So it isn't a new concept, but I think it just gets amplified in the workplace.

And more so with all that literature that's out there, I think we'll talk more as we go along that I think we can keep it simple based on just doing away with some of the stereotypes and what's even called meta stereotypes, which means like I carry a certain stereotype about my own self or my generation, and that's where it all starts.

So that's, I would say that, and we can go into some of the stereotypes, but that's the place where it starts normally. Okay good. I like where this is going and I could interject a little bit, but I'm gonna wait a little bit longer. Okay. When a leader needs to build trust with younger employees, where should they start?

In the very first conversation? Sure. So I think one of the things which is very important, Michael as we think about different generation, and especially for, let's say the Gen Z generation, because that's, that is the youngest generation in the workplace is to appreciate the context in which they're coming toward.

And I won't go into the details of the context of all the prior generation, but the Gen Z generation, rightly wrongly, and we don't. I think we, they just have seen enough within their 25 to 29 years of being on planet Earth, which is to say that they've seen a war, they've seen a pandemic, they've seen the Me Too movement.

They're seeing fake news. They're seen plenty. Which often people will say that, there isn't the traditional word of the midlife crisis, but it's the court light crisis. And therefore, I think the first place to start Europe. Good people, leader is to just create the space for, to say that, Hey, listen, I, how do I build trust and how do I make you more comfortable?

And today in the HR. World in the leadership space. There's so much being talked about, psychological safety and safe to speak, but a lot of that will only work in my view, Michael, if the leader or the manager is willing to invest the time, which means that if he or she comes to your room, if he or she's coming to ask your question and you disagree with them or you don't.

Kind of wanna subscribe to their way of thinking. You still want to create that space where they feel like, listen, I should voice my opinion. My boss isn't gonna hold it against me. And gradually when you do that enough. You will see that trust gets built. And I say that this is even more necessary today because of where technology has taken us, right?

So if you see the curve of how technology is quickly growing, it is nearly impossible. Back in the day when you went to the boss and said, I don't want a problem. I want a solution today. The problems themselves are becoming extremely complex. So therefore it is. In the manager's good decision or in their interest to say that, you know what, I think I need to appreciate another lens.

And the only way you can appreciate another lens is for them to be open in sharing their ideas. Now, at the end of the day, you may still disagree with them and you may say, Hey, I think I've seen enough, but, and I appreciate your input there, but I think on this one we're gonna go this way. And it's a gradual process.

I see. And I work with companies. I think people. Believe that this is something that's gonna happen in one conversation or two conversation, but it's something that just takes time. A lot of patience and a lot of investment, I would say in the manager's part. Wouldn't you say that it's a two-way street?

That the Gen Z has to begin trusting the owner, and the owner also has to begin trusting the Gen Z. It's a two-way street. You have to be open to trust, but it can't be one sided, one side can't open to it. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think you make a good point. And I think just to conclude that last point, I do want to mention that it isn't all about the managers not doing what they do, but I think, and I often say this to, I often say this to the Gen Zs in, in, when I do workshops to say that, look, you have a 40 or a 50 year runway, that is a good chance you will have a millennial as a boss or a Gen Xer as a boss for at least the next 20 years because that's their runway.

Now, forget about, whether you like it or not, but the factory means that they're gonna be either your colleagues or bosses or in some capacity, right? So it, it's a kind of a two-way street where you need to take the interest to say what inspires them? Why do they want to communicate this way?

Why do they see careers this way? Why do they see learning this way? And therefore, I think equally the flip side is too, where the managers need to think about that. Listen, if I'm an Xer, I've got about 20 years or 15 years. If I'm doing a workshop, there's a good chance that the same workshop, nine, five years from now, we'll have more Gen Zs in the room than maybe the people that are there now.

Very good. Okay. Good. Good. Okay, so what's the most common reason multi-gen teams struggle to work with one another, and how should leaders respond when tensions rise? Yeah, so I think as I mentioned one of the things that. Leads to some of this is, and Michael, you're, we've spoken about communication and forms of communication.

But how do we get to build that sort of, routine of communication. But I think I would start with, both the self-awareness, which is the first step. This is to say that, okay, if I'm a manager, managing people of different levels, different, age groups different cultural backgrounds, am I self aware of my strengths?

In other words. Do I tend to default back to my old habits and therefore I think the self-awareness becomes the number one thing for people leading people to say that. Okay, are you reasonably aware of your blind spots? And there are ways in which you can minimize that.

You can ask feedback and you can do many other things and you can have instruments and so on. So that is the first place that I think the more we can become aware of ourselves, the more we know that, okay, what should I not do when I'm in front of a colleague or a peer, or let's say someone that I'm managing.

The other, as we mentioned is is just the stereotypes right now. There, there are many ways. To overcome this and I'll just mention very briefly a couple of ways. So one of the things that I do is, what I call is an assumptions audit, which means that if you truly have a MultiGen team, let's say you and I are on the team, and let's say we've got two other people we'll come together and say that, okay, what is the one assumption I've been making about this person?

That maybe he's he's, he's not good with technology. And you keep, you floor the assumptions and I think you figured out a way in which you can bring that into a conversation. Now you need a good facilitator. You need someone to unpeel some of that. So a it requires you to put that out there, which means there has to be trust in the team.

But the second step is what I call adjust the lens. Which means that why should I assume that Michael is not good with technology? Maybe Michael is more savvy than the Gen Z in the room. And I think adjust the lens simply says that we then get to know the person a little better from what, what is happening.

And I think that there are the four thing that one could do is what I also. Called mutual mentoring, which means that if I'm good at something, can I offer and teach my skill sets or my expertise to the team, and can I request and be humble enough to have someone else do it the other way?

And there you have to be. At least, be humble enough to say that, look, I'm gonna shed my ego if a 25-year-old person can teach me how to do a TikTok video much better than, let's say I I even though I may have 25 years of experience, I think we should just say, Hey, listen I think I need to learn from you so you could do some of these things.

Again, culture means new routines, which means that it's not about just tall promises and, beautiful posters. It is about doing it. Doing it consistently and having ways to track it. So you're really, you're saying it's a mindset shift that they have to be open to the communication between their bosses or peers or something else.

Because if a Gen Z person walks in and they don't have that mindset that they are going to be open to these changes, they're not going to last. And as the manager or the owner, they'll look at the new hire and they'll say this person can't play well with others, so they're not gonna have the job for very long.

So you're saying that they should really open up a little bit, have a mindset shift, and it'll go a lot longer. Absolutely. Absolutely. And there are lots of biases that we have, Michael, that could be another conversation. But I think one of the most common ones, I just wanna lay this out there because that what that everybody falls pre to is that, and certainly when we get more experiences, what I call the confirmation bias, which is simply to say that, I have a belief in my head.

And I'm gonna look for data that just confirms that belief, right? So if I have a tough assignment, I'm gonna talk to my three friends who will say, Hey, don't do this. This is not a good thing to do. Rather than can I think about, another perspective, can I welcome another opinion? And I think for managers, for people.

Both sides are the aisle, right? They just need to consciously build a habit to invite another perspective. I may disagree with them, but I don't, can I? The only way I can appreciate like what is Michael gonna talk about is to say, Michael, I still like to hear what you have to say. You may have made a decision.

And I think that is one of the things that if we can just even work towards that, that can bring a lot of harmony and we can go from friction to fusion. Yeah. No I absolutely believe in what you're saying, but it's the people who surround you, so you don't want Yes. Men. You don't want somebody or people to agree with everything that you say because you're not getting anything, any information that way.

So if you get some people say, look, I wouldn't do it that way because I would do it this and this. And you can say, I agree with that, but not really. So I'm gonna do it my way, but at least you had a different point of view so you can judge yourself. And really for managers, supervisors, VPs C-suite people, it's, you have to look, have a lot of those rather than having Yes.

Men, right? Absolutely. When, I've owned multiple companies and we've always had. That opportunity to have people say, did you, should you really have done that? Because I would've done it this way. And it makes you think and oh, you're right. And sometimes I had to go in and apologize to my employee, but that didn't happen too often.

So it, it's just it's a mindset. I agree. Does curiosity help a leader influence without coming across too pushy or political? Yeah, so I think the, the way in which we, I just we spoke a little while ago that we think about how we've gone from industry 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 5.0, and what has happened?

In the shift in talent, right? So there was a time in which you needed to have engineering skills and engineering and math skills and standardization. But I think we're now there where I think one of the biggest thing that the world is facing, every company, every leader. Is every entrepreneur is gonna face is what I call just the skill set of learning agility, which is to say that how do I unlearn some of what I know and how do I look at transdisciplinary lens of.

The way in which the world is happening. And I, I think even while we're now a few years from, the COVID experience, but I think COVID taught us that, which is to say that like you don't, you cannot you didn't quite solve the problem by having a good vaccine. You had to think about who's gonna get it?

How are we gonna ship it? What's the pricing? What's the communication strategy? And therefore you cannot say that, look, if I've made one good vaccine, I've solved the problem. And I think therefore. Curiosity goes a long way. And I think if you think about the way in which technology has grown, right?

I think we've seen very few inventions in the last 200 years, but we've seen so much more in the last 30 years. And they say that, that curve is nothing but not linear curve, right? It's just going, straight up. Therefore, curiosity to me is. So fundamental today and the ability to be curious about things.

And so the other day somebody was telling me that, Chad, GPT can actually solve and do better financial analysis than the first year McKinsey consultants. Now, if you are in that kind of a situation, that, what does that say? That says that. I have to be curious about other learning technology.

I have to be curious about ways and telling my clients that, look, GPT is one, they're gonna do something here, but I am gonna help you bring that other element. It's a core competency now in, what I call the future of work. Yeah. I always view AI or chat GPT as a tool.

So if you're a financial advisor, use AI as a tool and you talk to your customers because people still need the people. Mode. They still have to talk to people. They, people don't feel comfortable unless they get another person, even if they're doing it through Zoom, because here you and I are speaking, but you are a person, so you're a person behind the camera.

So I use AI all the time, but I use it as a tool and I use it as a backing for what I'm saying, and I'm talking to you about it. So that's the way that. I use it and you are right because the other thing that Michael, what happens, especially when we're talking about generations that I almost empathize and most feel sympathize for the Gen Z generation because here is a generation which is growing into the internet.

I always say Gen Y accepted technology, but Gen Z expects technology and I think we have to be cautious. While AI is so powerful and everything that we don't become overdependent, in other words, you don't, in many ways people say that, look, you're outsourcing your thinking to ai. And the other day I was reading, there's an experiment done, I think one of the schools is a Caltech.

Where they did is that they actually tracked they did three, three buck, three groups of people. One where they gave a problem to solve the human mind, the brain, and then there was another set of problems which had to be solved through using Google. And the third was using chat or let's say generative ai and what they found out in their brain movements over like the six months is that.

Two on this side, which is the AI and the Google the brain movement. It was shrinking in the sense that there was more atrophy building built because we are not using the muscles or the cells or the neurons. While, so I totally agree with you, I think our ability to solve on our own is so much more crucial, and the human element should never go away.

Absolutely. And I've heard of that study, by the way, so I know exactly what you're talking about, but I've always been in the camp of using my, my, my head because I have to make the decision whether I'm gonna use AI tool, the AI tool, or some other tool, and I have to learn how to put them all together.

I use 'em all. I put 'em together and come up with my own decision, and that's what I think separates us from the computer, so to speak. Yeah. Okay. In your view, what's the biggest mistake leaders make when trying to communicate expectations clearly? I think the, one of the things that I think you may have read, there's a very good book written by a gentleman called Daniel Pink, and he's written a book called The Drive.

And he essentially in that book talks about what are some of the explicit factors that are expected from an employee, like when he or she's joining a company and we all have a list like salary and brand and this and that. And he said that, okay, look, even if we get seven out of 10. On a good day, that's pretty good.

But what matters to employees beyond all of that is the ways in which. We are giving them engagement at workplace. And I always say, Michael, fundamentally that there was a time in which perhaps like maybe our generation, your generation, my generation, like the way in which we looked at work was that, I gave time and there was money on the other side.

So the exchange was time against money. Now it's going where it's a more of a value exchange. In other words, what value do I bring and what value does the employer bring? And that's the way in which people are looking at it. And, I think the biggest mistake that we tend to do is that managers tend to delegate the responsibility but not the authority.

So I'll just repeat that. Managers tend to delegate the responsibility but not the authority. I want to tell the whole world that, listen, I am, I'm, I'm all for innovation. But the moment a team member comes to me and says that, Hey boss, can I try this a different way? You just simply say, no.

And I'm just saying this as a general example, because there's always instances where you wanna do the tried and tested versus when do you allow them to do an experiment. But it requires the manager to let go, which means that. They don't have to feel so attached and, in love with what they do.

And therefore, I think that is a growing process. I've seen people with 25 years of experience and holding onto what they know and not letting it go, and it almost becomes their own sort of, it a ways in which it's it can boomerang to them, which means they can't delegate more. And they continue to do the same thing.

And therefore the way to overcome that is to make sure that we give autonomy properly. We give them skills to become good. We show them a purpose in why they, and then we provide the safety to do this. Now, I'll just say one last thing. Safety doesn't mean here that you don't hold people account.

A lot of times people say, Hey, I want psychological safety, and I like that company and I like that boss. But that is not at the cost of accountability. You still hold them accountable. And I think that's the distinction that people have to make, that you can create a safe space, but you can still hold 'em accountable.

Absolutely. And I wanna bring you back about, 40 years maybe longer. I went into the military and I was in the Air Force and I was under the tutelage of a sergeant who was my supervisor, and he said, look, when you go out there, when you go out and you want to the base, you do perform your duties, make a decision.

Right or wrong, make the decision because we're, listen. If you've made the right decision, fantastic. If you made the wrong decision, we'll clean it up. Okay. But you have to make that decision and you have to be accountable for that decision. So that should make your decision making process that much more important.

And this was taught like 40 years ago, but that was the same concept because you have to not only give the responsibility, but give the authority. To make those decisions and that's, it just brought me right back when you were talking that it just brought me right back to him. I was like, oh my goodness.

That's exactly. But it made me the person I am today. Yeah. And I think that would be very helpful for a Gen Z person going into the workplace after they've established themselves. You can't walk through the door and expect this, but let's say after a year being in there, you're given the responsibility, but you're given the accountability.

Yeah. For it. Say, look, you're gonna have to be accountable for this, so you have to make your decision. So I think that's a very good point that you're making. Okay. If someone wants to improve how well they connect with others, what's a small daily practice that has a big payoff? Michael, I was just coming back from doing about four workshops for a very large conglomerate.

They're extremely successful leaders by 20 years of experience. And one of the things they're grappling with is just the fact that they're good in their teams, but what is the value for them to go out, in other words, to go across. And I think it is as simple as understanding, and I gave lots of examples to say that, look, any.

A company that we admire today and the leaders that we admire, and I give, I just give a couple of examples. Like companies like Google or I say Microsoft, there were times in which many of their products were independent, not working together and not realizing the potential. But it's the people in the organization, some of the key leaders who made that happen, which is to say that they were becoming a crucial bridge to some of these other functions.

And that simply can only happen when you can build relations. You certainly don't have authority over three product lines, but if I just build relations with you and let's say someone else who's holding another portfolio over time, people not just value my technical skills, but they understand that, look he takes people along and he takes everybody along.

And I sense that I always say as our conversation Michael, which was that. Networking shouldn't be seen as transactional. Networking is all about a longitudinal game, which means that I attend conferences or I go and, spend a day in my colleague's, office and say, Hey, what is it that they're doing?

And I read up on something and I make a brand. But at the end of the day, remember, you're doing this. To expect something, next three months, six months, that's just the wrong way of looking at it. And I always say that I think the more you can take, the more mature view of building relations in an organization, it almost becomes your coalition or your bench or your championship support, which is there in the background without coming in the foreground.

But, when the pyramid gets smaller, it is the, those people. Whom you build relations will come and step up and say that, you know what, Michael is a super guy. I know him. He's worked hard. Like even though he was not directly reporting to me, he was always willing to help. He was always willing to do this.

And I sense that leaders, and especially young people, Michael, I think if they can just appreciate and take that view that networking is so crucial and it is just crucial and important even in personal life. The ability to build relationships, right? I don't know. I don't know if you realized it, but you hit the core of networking with what you said.

I ever since the pandemic it networking was really transactional. Before the pandemic, I feel it was very transactional. I have a widget, you have three, $3, you can have my widget and that's it. But afterwards, it's become more relationship oriented. More relational. And I used to go to networking events.

I was in a mortgage field. I used to come home with a shoebox filled with business cards. Look how good I did when I did horrible. Right Now, all the people that I coach and teach and everything else, and I'm mentoring a few, when you go to a networking event. 15 cards, maybe 20, because then I know that you've spoken with them, you've created that relationship.

And of course that builds up for the follow up, which is a whole nother story, right? But it gives you the opportunity to follow up with all these people. You create that relationship, and when you create the relationship, you go so much further. Absolutely. Can you share a time when a mistake became the spark for better relationships or improved teamwork?

So it, I think maybe I can share times in which I've seen this with clients, right? And I, I. Again, I go back to say that in many of the companies Michael, what was happening is that as they were becoming more global, the ability to communicate was. Becoming harder, considering time zones and all of that, the roles and so on.

And at some point companies started to realize that, look, there has to be a way in which we have to make this work because you're serving a global client, you're serving someone who's across zones. And one of the things that they did is that they actually made 50% of their. Sort of appraisal process to be like having a weighted average of 50% through the team collaboration.

So in the earlier world, what used to happen is a lot of conflict. I blame you that you know what, Michael has to show up at 10 o'clock his time and I have to show up at midnight my time. And all these things were happening and I think. It was again, just this whole view of how do we appreciate working and making collaboration happen.

And I just say this more generally rather than quoting an instance, but I say that I think it, it becomes so much more again, that longitudinal view. I've seen people when they have to do cross selling as a. As a skill set, right? How do I know okay, what is Michael doing? What am I doing?

What is the third person doing? Then they go and spend some time, what I call, day in the life of a customer, and they together then go and pitch to the client. And I think prior to that, I, and I just, again, I say this because when you are working in a silo matrix. A situation. What tends to happen is that you are in your world and you're doing your thing.

And lots of companies have, what I call shouting match cultures, which means that something happens and something doesn't happen. Like they just escalate and elevate and escalate. And that, and that's just the thing that, that's the way things should be done. And on the flip side is that I think if you just have a way in which you can.

Kind of say that, look, this is the one way in which we have to make this happen. And increasingly now with so much, work being done globally across teams, right? So I say that those are two or three ways, or two, two or three instances where I've seen clients where how do we get past these, my tower of excellence and look beyond.

Okay. Good. Good. Okay. How do you help people handle conflict in a way that strengthens relationships instead of tearing them apart? Yeah, so I think so much has been written on conflict and there are all these stages of conflict that. It's in a sort of early stage and then it's brewing and it's getting bigger, and then, you don't have the strength to, call someone out, and then it continues to brew and it just becomes so big and then it just gets to a stage where it's unavoidable or inevitable and then you do the postmortem and try to fix that now.

A lot of what is becoming more popular Michael in organizations today is what we call nonviolent communication, or NBC. And the Microsoft CEO actually noticed this in his. Company when he took over, when he realized that, look, we're far behind in our product strategy, which is to say that we missed out on mobility, we missed out on social media.

We missed out on what else? On the search engine and so on. But what he wanted to fix was the culture, which is saying that every man or every one person was for themselves. And so what the nonviolent communication is essentially saying is that I still communicate what I've. Feel based on a certain need which is not being felt, and there's a kind of certain process to that.

But it's just a very powerful way of almost making sure that the conflict is not there. It's almost like the pre conflict stage, if you can. And I think if companies and managers can start practicing that then you almost are, you're sharing what you want. Deeply waste on what you feel without getting, very aggressive or shouting or anything like that.

And it's just a skill and I feel that it's such an important skill today because even when people have to give feedback, in some cultures, giving straight feedback is very easy. In some cultures, it's not very easy. Therefore people are moving around and things like that. So this non-violent communication, NBC is basically written, by this guy called Marshall Rosenberg, right?

He's written that book and he just says that, look, this is a good way for us to do away with this whole sort of sandwich feedback and, becoming very aggressive and I think that is one, one very tried and tested approach that many companies are doing today. And that's so true.

It, the culture of a, of a company comes from the top down and it's like you said, it's a skill that they have to master. You can't just say, okay I'm gonna change the culture of my company and overnight it's gonna change. You have to, they have to practice. Now the upper echelon, the CEOs the C-suite executives or the even the supervisors have to.

Have to practice because the new people coming in just say, oh, this is the culture and they accept it, but it has to work from the top down. And that's part of the training that I give the C-suite executives because when I teach the workplace, when I do a workshop for them, and if nothing changes from up top, then what I'm doing is for not.

It's not gonna do anything. So it's a skill and they have to master it. And once they master it, then everybody gets along that much better. That's right. Okay, so people learn in different ways. How can a leader shape communication so everyone in the room feels engaged and understood? Yeah, great question.

I think, one of the challenges that people have, experience even more pronouncedly, which is the fact that how people see communication post COVID. And and I say this because all of our preferences of how do we, how we used to communicate and what's happening because of the intervention of technology has changed that.

But I had to do a workshop, Michael, I think, in the middle of COVID. How do you lead people in, how do you lead hybrid teams? One of the things that I think first before we get to that, is to be mindful of the fact that the manager of the future will have to lead people in these four boxes that I give, which is to say that, synchronous asynchronous on one axis and remotely and together in another axis, which means that.

I'm either on a Zoom call or a team call, that's one. Or let's say we do a call and someone rec picks it up as a recording. I'm in the office physically, or I'm doing that remotely. And therefore you cannot take the view that, I'm good at one thing or I used to lead people in a, being in the office, like the world, the workplace is changing in a way that, as the CEO of Microsoft says that you have to be good in all four because the younger generation has that kind of their context now.

Generally what tends to happen and the post COVID, because so many of the companies are doing some combination of hybrid two plus three, five plus zero, whatever it is, like whatever works for them in their own sort of world, which means that you should have a quick sort of a protocol or portal a rule of like how you're gonna communicate, which means okay, if it's an emergency.

You can text me if it's a client communication, we do an email. If it's a team kind of a conversation, we can use Slack or we can use teams or we can use something. So I think what works is defining the protocol and also keeping in mind that every generation also has a slight preference. Like I remember from my time, and I'm sure as you can relate that, I, I.

Preferred writing emails. And that's just the way I felt that like the boss should know and everybody else should know. But over time, like I'm thinking that, maybe other mediums are like easier, maybe a voice note. And I see, and I learned that from the younger generation. So I think every generation has a preference, but the way in which we can manage it a little bit tightly is to just have a certain rule to say that, listen, if it's expected to be.

It's a client and expect it to be written in 24 hours. This is the medium. If it's less than four hours, use a chat. If it is 48 hours, use this. And I think if we can do that, then just makes it easy. And today most companies are deploying technology in a good way, but it's this protocol that, that needs to be set.

Absolutely. You have fir, you first have to figure out who your customer base is, and that's how they receive what you're saying. Whether it's a group chat, whether it's a texting, whether it's a voicemail, an email, whether it's an email with a video whatever. You can figure all of this out as soon as you figure out your customer base.

Now you may have extra people. Within that, but you have that customer base and that's how you deal with them. So yes, I agree. And I have to remember that every day, because really what you were talking about was, when I do a workshop, I have to keep it interactive and I have to keep it up to where they will all stay interested.

And if I'm talking to a bunch of Gen C or to a bunch of boomers, it's two completely different workshops, the same information, but it's completely different. Alright, so let's bring this podcast full circle. If someone listening wants to grow their influence at work. Starting today, what's the first simple action that they should take?

I'll just say two things here, first and foremost. A leader becomes a true leader and refines himself or herself by becoming more and more self-aware. And this sounds very simplistic, but, I think as we see the outside context changing, the inside context changing meaning to say that more people of different ages are coming together the external world is changing in such a rapid place, right?

It's becoming the perfect storm. And the more we know that how and who we are and how do we show up. For our customers, for our suppliers, for our people, for our peers. It is, it goes a long way. And some of the best leaders that I can think of, Michael, who, we work with global companies like Unilever and so on, it's just their ability to be flexible and adaptable.

We often use this line that those who are coachable are scalable. So it isn't about 30 years of experience or 25 years of experience, but it is about okay. Despite the third year experience chat, GPT can make a dent into your experience. So can you be flexible enough? Humble enough.

So I would say that if we can invest your time in self-awareness, that is one very simple and an ongoing thing that one can do. So that's just the one. But I'll leave it at that. 'cause you're asking for one, I think. I think that's very important, the self-awareness, because that will open you up to listening.

To listening, whether it's to your manager or supervisor or to your peers, right? If you open yourself up, then you will actually gain more information. This was great. This was packed with insights. The kind people replayed because it hit home. If you're listening and thinking, I can use that at work tomorrow, then you're already ahead to our guests.

Thank you for sharing your experience and your approach to leading people with clarity and purpose, and to everyone tuning in, pick one idea from today and put it to use in your next interaction. Growth doesn't come from knowing it. It comes from doing it. Until next time, keep building relationships that matter.

Keep learning from every conversation and keep turning knowledge into real progress. I can't begin to thank you enough. But Nikhil, what if somebody wanted to get hold of you? If somebody wanted your knowledge or to be coached or a workshop, how would they do it? Thank you, Michael. It's been a real pleasure.

I've really enjoyed it. I think we've talked about a few things which I think are relevant for every one of us including us in our own profession, which is that, how do you look at the changing workplace, the worker and the work itself? I think the easiest way for people to get in touch is I would say LinkedIn.

It's today the most commonly used platform for professionals. Look me up on LinkedIn and you'll find all the other details. I have my website details there. I have a YouTube channel of course which gives you the the videos of the podcast. And the podcast is called Working with Gen Z which is again, available on the most popular platforms as well.

Look me up LinkedIn, and that should become your one source to kind find the other ways to look new. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming onto PO to the podcast. I'm sure that all my listeners took something from what we were discussing and they'll use it. Thank you again. Thank you, Michael. Have a good one.

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  a huge thank you to our guests for sharing such incredible insights today, and of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in and spending your time with us. If you're interested in my digital courses being coached or having me come and talk to your company, just go to MichaelAForman.com and fill out the request form.

Remember, networking isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. So take what you've learned today, get out there and make some meaningful connections. If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a review. Share it with someone who could use a little networking inspiration.

Let's keep the conversation going. You can find me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my website michaelaforman.com/podcast.

Michael is a business networking expert specializing in enhancing professionals' networking and communication skills to drive profitability. As a leading authority in this field, he is highly sought after for his dynamic presentations and workshops. His extensive experience has consistently led to significant improvements in corporate profitability by empowering individuals and organizations to connect more effectively and efficiently.

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