Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections. An Interview with Scott Grozelle and Michael A Forman
- mforman521
- 2 days ago
- 15 min read
Welcome to Networking Unleashed, building Profitable Connections to show where real relationships create real results. I'm your host, Michael Forman. Let's be honest, most professionals have experienced networking that felt more like a sales pitch than a conversation. Too many people enter the room focused on closing a deal instead of building a relationship.
But the truth is, the most successful professionals often grow their businesses in a very different way. They become known for their knowledge, their credibility, and trust that they build with others in their industry. My guest today believes that authentic relationships consistently outperform traditional sales tactics.
We're talking about how deep industry knowledge positions you as a resource, how trust develops through genuine conversations and why people are far more likely to do business with someone they respect than someone trying to sell them something. So if you want to build connections that naturally lead to opportunity, this episode is for you.
I'd like to welcome to my podcast, Scott Scott, I, you are a professional or an expert in all of this. So why don't you introduce yourself. Give us the, like the cliff notes of how you got where you are today. Sure. Thanks Mike for having me on your show. Yeah, so I started actually in architecture. I got out of college, I moved to the us.
I was born and raised in Canada, and I moved to the US doing architecture for 10 years. And as much as I liked, I loved being in the us. That was the best part. But I didn't really care much for doing architecture anymore. I just I found it too confining. I wanted to change careers. I wanted to get into more sales and just working more with people in that kind of an environment.
So I ended up moving back to Canada and I went from architecture into into construction more with larger buildings and custom homes. So I got to wear a lot of hats. Which I was excited about. I got to do the sales, I got to do the construction. I, like I said, I wore a lot of hats, so it was a lot of fun and I really enjoyed that end of it.
So I, it just felt like a really natural transition for me 'cause I could use what I learned in architecture. Carried it over. I ended up moving to Alberta and I got in with the medium sized home builder. We were doing around 50 to 75 homes a year. And then I got into I partnered up with a couple of other guys and we started our own custom home building company.
And we came right outta the gates quickly and once again, wore lots of hats. And we were doing probably around 75 homes a year, customs speculation homes just a variety and renovations and everything. So that's how I made my transition from. From architecture to where I am. So we closed up. How I got to here now was we closed up around 2019.
We just, there's a lot of cycles in Alberta, which makes it really difficult to. To navigate the highs and lows. You get caught with all your capital sitting into one development, all of a sudden it's just dangerous. So the comfort level became where let's just part ways everyone, the three of us.
And, which was tough 'cause I really built something I really loved and was hugely passionate about. So when I closed that up, I started getting a lot of calls from people that were working on large projects in a cost plus environment or. Or whatever. And it was referrals because I really cared about my clients, and I built relationships like that.
And the referrals just carried on and carried on. And then I had one guy that had a big development in Calgary and he didn't, he wasn't comfortable with his numbers and he was really nervous about it. So he sent me all his information, all the documents and all the pricing. And I reviewed it and I realized that there's just a lot of, a lot of things going on behind the scenes. So I helped them navigate through that and saved 'em a few hundred thousand dollars for sure. 'cause it was a large project, but same with homes. A custom home, you can spend a couple million bucks and you don't realize that you're throwing a lot of that money away.
And so that's where I got, I guess I built my business around being, transparent and doing what I like. And I have a pretty good knowledge. I've been doing this for. I always say around 25 to 30 years I've been involved with, at some level of construction all the way to where I am now.
So Good. Good. Okay. Okay. Thank you for giving us the background. You emphasize the power of industry knowledge. How does deep understanding of your field change the way people respond to you in networking conversations? Oh, it's huge. Yeah. I mean it's, they get a sense of that you're not BSing them at all.
So it it gives 'em the comfort level. And, I put out three books just recently with all my, everything I learned over the last, three decades. And the books actually had a lot of credibility because there's a lot of information. And if they know, my background like that, then it's, there is a, it just seems to bridge that, bridge is the confidence right away. Very good. Many professionals rely on sales tactics. Why do why do authentic relationships often outperform those approaches in the long term? Yeah that's important. I always believe in relationships. That's how I built my success. I just think the sales pitches and I took a bunch of those programs, those classes and I just felt they just, it didn't work and I just felt if you're being honest, transparent you build trust, your referrals come so much more.
And if you come pre-qualified, if somebody's recommending you, you know what that says a lot. And that take, that's where you're building your business. And like you said, it's, you're doing stuff that's scripted and that's not genuine and people feel it right away. There's no question.
They sure do. I take the pandemic as a line in the sand. Yeah. Before the pandemic was really transactional. People really wasn't, they weren't thinking about relationships and authenticity and everything else, but. Post pandemic. It's become more because Zoom came into it and you had to realize that there were people behind the camera, yeah. And you're speaking to people, so you had to get to create that relationship first. Nobody likes the guy walking up to you and giving you a business card and saying, look, I do X, Y, Z doesn't work. No, it really doesn't. Really doesn't. Alright. I agree. What does someone say or avoid saying in a first conversation that signals credibility instead of just persuasion?
For me, when I would meet somebody I would ask them pre-qualifying questions right away, and, at the end of the day, I would ask them right out, if you're looking to build. I'd like to build for you. I'd like you to pick me. I just I wanna work with you and I would just be right out, honest about it.
If you're looking to build, I hope I can earn your business. And that's usually how I made it work for myself. And I watched a lot of people over the years, like a lot of times we would, my wife and I would go in to different developments in different cities and that, and just see how the salespeople were.
Were reacting with, or interacting, I guess you could say with the people that were coming into their sales center and the ones that were doing well, they were they were pre-qualifying you through questions and that, nobody wants to waste a bunch of time on somebody that's not serious.
But you do find the ones that are serious will take the time to give you the information that you need to move forward. Yeah. Yeah. A absolutely. There's a book written. Long time ago, like 15 or 20 years, called the Raving Fan by Ken Blanchard. Okay. And it's a like a 45 minute read and it's outta publication already.
I used to, I always used to be in a mortgage field and I used to buy them by the truckload. I used to give it with my business card to a realtor and I said, look for customer service, read this book. It's really quick, it's really simple, but it teaches you all the basics of being of having good customer relationship.
And it's incredible. You would think that it's common sense, but it's not. It's really not. And people don't think about it. But that's a really good book to read. That, oh, go ahead. Sorry. No, go ahead, go. No, I was gonna say in the mortgage business, that's important also, like the referrals, that's.
That's gonna make or break you pretty quickly? It was all referrals. All referrals. And where I came from, the county had 3000 realtors. Wow. The mortgage guys were almost as much, you were working your way through the forest, to get to the one referral.
So I changed what I did a hundred percent. And authentic relationship building I went into it with a servant's heart. I wanted to say, how can I make you more successful? And all of that turned everything. Around and that's when I started becoming successful. The mortgage company. Yeah. How does sharing insight from experience build trust faster than trying to close the deal?
Yeah, that's, I never was one to push a close quickly. I would want to earn the trust. For sure. And I want to gain their trust and let you know. 'cause that to me, like you said, it's it. I didn't want it to be transactional ever. 'cause that doesn't work. Not for longevity. And especially in a home building.
That's one of the biggest purchases of your life right there. And I always found that if you walk into a Best Buy or an RV place, and those guys knew their products so well. And that was I'm thinking of why wouldn't you wanna be working with somebody that knew that kind of knowledge on one of the biggest purchases of your life?
And that's where I found that's where I would gain the trust. I would walk 'em through a project midway through construction just to show them the important stuff behind the walls before it gets drywalled in. And that, so once you build like credibility you're moving forward. Yeah you have to realize that, if you're a good salesman your sales cycle like the back of your hand.
Yep. But nobody teaches you how to properly network, how to properly communicate, how to properly get the other person's attention. You may know your product really well. But your communication skills lack that's where I'm gonna move to somebody else. That's right. Yes. Yeah. That's another piece of the puzzle that has to come together.
Absolutely. And yeah, you're right. Communication is going to move you, it is gonna move the needle, let's just say that, right? Yes, absolutely. What habits help someone become known as a trusted resource rather than just another salesperson? Obviously networking, going on creating YouTube videos and that and becoming that voice is huge.
That's something I've just recently adopted because I just feel that people want to know more about you, who you are, you know what you are. And that's, I think, important in getting yourself out there for sure. Is, social media has become a part of being recognized. When you go out and you speak with people, when you network with them, they, they may ask if they don't know of you what work have you done?
Beforehand, or who do you know that I can go talk to? Yes. So all of that builds credibility and the more credibility you have. Yeah, it's huge. It's huge. Yep. I couldn't agree more. Where do people unintentionally damage trust when they focus too much on the transaction? They try to over promise seems to be one of the biggest, promise and over promise and under deliver.
Every time, anytime I see that, it's just gonna be a recipe for disaster. Clients don't mind you being honest. And if you can't do something or can't give them something, be upfront about it. Everybody's trying to be in business and stay in business. If you want to blow trust really quick, start over.
Promising. Yeah. It's a great way to destroy your business. Yep. And, and you're serving your own if you're a salesperson, a realtor a new home salesperson, and you're overpromising and you're not delivering, nobody's winning them. The company's upset with you, the client's upset.
You're not getting referrals. You're not gonna get a network of people coming to you, ever. And the other thing I noticed is, when you become that person. That people are talking about, you're getting a lot of different referral sources coming. You're gonna get 'em from mortgage brokers.
Love working with somebody that's, that understands the industry really well. You know that for sure. Realtors love bringing a client that they know they're gonna be handing it off, that because they trust you and they know you're not gonna fumble it. And those things. When you build that kind of trust, you don't want it to be deteriorating anytime soon because that's your business, that's your pipeline, for sure.
Absolutely. Absolutely. How can someone use their industry knowledge to add value to conversations without sounding like they're lecturing? Yeah, you don't want to come off like that for sure. And I don't know. I always watch how I present myself because you don't want to become arrogant or belittle someone.
Just because they don't know what you know. It took me 30 years to get to where I got and I. I don't know. I just think you just gotta listen more than you talk. Listen for what the questions they have, I think that's important. And then answer, try not to overstep where you don't need to.
'cause that does, that'll tear people apart also. Yeah, it, it's really important that you listen. Whenever I talk about communication, about networking, listening is such an important part of the networking and communication. It's, you have to listen to what they have to say, but you don't come up with the next thing that you want to talk about.
Don't do that. You'll listen. You're listening to the person, and then you're responding partly with what they're talking about and saying, if I understand you correctly. You said X, Y, X, Y, Z. Excuse me. So you're really paying attention. You're not saying very much and you're that pause, oh my God, that pause after you listen to them, it tells the other person that, yes, you were listening and you're responding to what they have to say.
Not the next thing you want to come up with. Exactly. So I agree. Yeah. Okay. What role does Curiosity play in building authentic professional relationships? That's interesting. Yeah. I, somebody's curious and they're coming to you with questions about what you do and what you have to offer.
That's important. They're curious enough to be talking to you and have the conversation open. So to me that's important. That's all, that's the whole part of the engaging part. And that's how you get, ultimately everybody wants to close whatever their, whatever service product, whatever you are selling, you wanna move the needle towards the end of it.
And that's the sale. Yeah. You and that curiosity does build, the pathway to that. Absolutely. You have to ask the questions, otherwise you're not gonna know. You're not gonna truly, and you you're gonna have to find out what their problem is because that's what the, that's the crux of everything.
The person has a problem, you have a solution. Exactly. A hundred percent. What I teach my clients is that, okay, yes, you're a problem solver and they have a problem, but you don't wanna meet them right there. You want to solve their problem, but you wanna meet them a little ways up the ladder, right?
Because you wanna be there for them. After that, you solve their problem and you want to be there for them, right? Absolutely. So it's a little after. So it all works out. No. And you're absolutely correct. You want to, you wanna be guiding them, you don't wanna be stumbling along with 'em.
That's not gonna, that's not gonna build the credibility that you're looking for. No. And you're not the expert then, right? No, you're not. If you're stumbling with them, you have to build to, take them by the hand and say, look, I wanna lead you this way. I don't wanna walk with you to get to this point.
You don't wanna stumble around and say, look I'm not sure, but I think we should go this way. And it doesn't work out that way. No, it doesn't. For professionals who feel pressured to sell themselves, what mindset shift helps them focus on connection instead? Everybody likes to, elevate themselves, I guess is lack of a better way of putting it.
And I don't know if that's necessarily the best way of approaching anything. The mind shift part I think you gotta focus on the client and really where they're going with it. It's nice to be able to elevate yourself, I guess you can say. But at the end of the day, the client is who you're should be concerned with.
That's the mind shift for sure. Absolutely. And I go across the country speaking about all of this and, one of the things I, I bring into it is humor and it's more self-deprecating than anything else. 'Cause I'm gonna make fun of myself. All my problems, all my mistakes.
Everybody will have a good laugh, but they can't laugh. They're not going to be upset with me because I'm not doing it to anybody else. I'm just doing it to myself. Sure. Why not? You can't laugh at yourself. Who can you Absolutely. And me. I can laugh at myself all day. So that's beside the point. Yeah. Okay.
So let's bring this podcast full circle. If a listener wants to build a reputation as someone people trust and recommend, what one relationship building habit should start immediately? I would, honestly, I would just be transparent, trust, focus on, always having to. An open conversation, I guess is always, that's a good way to start things.
Not, I don't see as many people taking the path of that. I mean it, but it's the longevity. That's where it's gonna going to get you in the end, right? And that's how you're gonna build connections. And that's who people don't refer, people that they trust and they feel good about.
I I refer people I trust. I will not refer anybody I don't trust. If I went and I guess the philosophy I always run would always have, would I do this? Would I want this done to myself? Anything I'm buying, anything I'm, any information I want is this, would I, is this the kind of information I want that I would want to be provided to myself?
If I can't say yes and I'm answering no, then it's your integrity is being compromised at that point. Absolutely. It's know you, like you, trust you. They'll do business with you. Yeah. And that trust factor is so important. It's so important because listen, and you're right. You're absolutely right. If I don't trust you, why am I gonna refer you?
You are not, I'm never gonna do business with you, and I don't expect anybody that I know to do business with you. No. So that's a very good thing. Yep. I think that, okay. Okay. This conversation reminds us that strong business relationships are rarely built through pressure. They're built through, they're built through trust, consistency and genuine interest in helping others succeed.
When people see you as someone who understands the industry and genuinely cares about the relationship, opportunities follow naturally. That's the power of credibility. Over tactics. Take one step this week instead of trying to impress someone. In your next conversation, focus on understanding them and sharing something useful from your experience.
You'll be surprised at how quickly trust begins to grow. If you found value in today's episode, make sure that you like, follow and subscribe to Networking Unleashed, building Profitable Connections, so you keep getting the best insights on networking and communication. And share this episode with someone who believes relationships are the real founder of business Success.
If you'd like. If you like help strengthening how you communicate and build meaningful professional relationships, visit michaelaforman.com to learn how I work with professionals, teams, and organizations. So until next time, lead with knowledge, build with trust and create connections that last, but what I should have done before, I did my little outro there, Scott, if anybody wants to get hold of you, what's the best way that they can do it?
They can visit me on my website@scottelle.com. G-R-O-Z-Z-E-L-L-E that has my books on there. Amazon, my books are on Amazon, all three of them. And yeah, but my website, I've got lots of freebies on there. I've got a free ebook. So yeah, I'm here to help and I always say, send me a message if there's something on there that you want, that you're looking for some information, I'm here.
That's great. Scott, thank you very much for coming on the podcast. You're a great guest. Thank you, Mike. Appreciate it.
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A huge thank you to our guests for sharing such incredible insights today, and of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in and spending your time with us. If you're interested in my digital courses being coached or having me come and talk to your company, just go to MichaelAForman.com and fill out the request form.
Remember, networking isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. So take what you've learned today, get out there and make some meaningful connections. If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a review. Share it with someone who could use a little networking inspiration.
Let's keep the conversation going. You can find me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my website michaelaforman.com/podcast.
Michael is a business networking expert specializing in enhancing professionals' networking and communication skills to drive profitability. As a leading authority in this field, he is highly sought after for his dynamic presentations and workshops. His extensive experience has consistently led to significant improvements in corporate profitability by empowering individuals and organizations to connect more effectively and efficiently.
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