Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections. An Interview with Jessica Rhodes and Michael A Forman

 Welcome to Networking Unleashed, building Profitable Connections. The show where conversations don't just sound good, they lead to real opportunities. I'm your host, Michael Foreman. Today we're talking about something many professionals overlook. Networking isn't limited to rooms, coffee meetings, or events anymore.

One meaningful conversation heard by the right audience. Can open doors you didn't even know existed. My guest today helps Coach Turn, I'm sorry. My guest today helps coaches turn podcast interviews into ideal clients, real relationships, and long-term opportunities. She believes podcasting is one of the most powerful visibility channels right now, and a big part of that comes from something that most people avoid.

Honest behind the scenes stories that build trust quickly. We're diving into why voice builds connections faster than content, how to show up on interviews, so listeners feel like they already know you. How one conversation can start a business relationship even before you meet in person. If you ever wondered how to turn conversations into opportunity, you're in the right place.

I'd like to welcome to the podcast, Jessica. Jessica, I am so glad that you are here. You have no idea. Oh, I've been reading about you. I've been watching you. I've seen you so many times, and I'm glad to have you on my podcast. So would you mind introducing yourself and just giving us a little idea of how you got here today?

Thank you so much for having me. I. 13 years ago, I was a new mom actually, almost 13 years ago to the day I was about to have my first baby. 'cause my oldest child turns 13 years old on Tuesday, and I was already starting to do some freelance virtual assistant work for my dad because I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom when my son was born.

So I was finishing things up with my job, knowing that after the baby was here, I'd be working from home, with my dad as my first client. And as my son got a little bit older, I was learning a little bit more about the entrepreneur life and I got bit by that bug of entrepreneurship and I thought, okay, I don't just want to build by the hour as a freelancer, basically with my own job, I wanna build a business.

And so my dad had a conversation with me. He was also my business coach, and he said, asked me some questions about what I like doing, what's in most demand, what do my clients get the most value out of? And it all came back to what I was doing with podcast booking, booking my dad on podcasts booking people for interviews on his podcast.

And that is what led to me founding the first ever podcast. Booking agency interview connections back in 2013. And over the last, now going on 13 years, we've booked over 50,000 podcast interviews. I've worked with over a thousand clients. We've. Taught tens upon thousands of entrepreneurs through our free masterclass, how to use podcast interviews as a way to network, to build your audience, to get new clients and create content that earns people's trust so that they want to work with you.

That sounds exactly what I feel that every one of my listeners should hear. That's how well I began. I'm a professional speaker and I go on stages and I talk about networking, communication, leadership, everything. But when I got into the podcasting world, it opened up what I do. I've had on every continent, every country.

It was just incredible. So I'm really enjoying this, so that's why I'm looking forward to your podcast. Okay. You say podcast interviews can lead directly to dream coaching clients. What happens in a conversation that makes you, that makes someone trust you faster than traditional marketing?

So the part about podcast interviews that is most effective in getting clients is not actually the interview itself, but it is the conversation that is happening before the recording with the host and after the recording with the host, and I saw this work. 13 years ago with my dad as my first case study, he is a business coach and I saw him use podcast interviews as a really effective way to get coaching clients.

And the way that he would do this, and the way I've seen so many other entrepreneurs do that I've worked with is that in the Green room chat, he got to know the host, he asked them questions. He learned about their business. He, showed that he cared about them. First, not just getting something from them, which was visibility to their audience, and that's what would happen with him as a guest on their show.

So he really built a relationship with them first, getting to know them. He did a great interview, and then there was a natural invitation in, I call it the green room. In that conversation with the host, after the recording is over and you're just chitchatting about when the episode's gonna go live, and you know how you can stay connected, there would often be a very natural invitation.

And it wasn't done in a salesy way or a high pressure way, but it was like he would have a Dream Business academy. It was his in-person seminar. He did it for many years. And oftentimes he would say to the host I have a seminar. I have a Dream Business Academy. I'd love for you to come. I'll give you a complimentary ticket.

And he would invite hosts to come. So he had many people that interviewed him. On their podcast, do a great interview, and they're like, yeah, love, I'd love a free ticket. They would come to the conference and then they would, sign up to work with him after the event. So it's like having a very natural next step to invite the host to, if they are an ideal client.

So that's just one story, example of how to network with the host to give value and just have a natural next step for that relationship. That's really good. And it really, it's keeping it real, keeping yourself, being your, being yourself before and after. And I find that happens also mostly with me.

It's before the conversation begins and after the conversation ends. That's where you get the real juicy stuff as I would say. So I would understand that completely. Another tip I have just for people that like, some what do I say? Another thing that you can ask the host as a guest to get to know them better.

If you're just like, I don't really know what to say or how to get to know them, just ask them why they started their podcast. Like absolutely take an interest because they're, why everyone's gonna be different. Like, why did you start your podcast? Just ask questions that allow you to get to know them better.

We had a client that always asked the podcast host, and he's a business coach and a sales trainer, and one of the podcast hosts was like, oh, basically their question, or their answer to that question was like. Trying to increase sales, trying to get more business. That's why they started their podcast.

And so very naturally he is oh I think I can help you with that. If that's, what you're trying to accomplish. Can have a call, like not a sales call, no pressure. You all have no obligation to buy, but I just think I could give you some more value. So just finding ways to give more value and discovering what the hosts needs help with.

It's a very good way. It's a very non assuming way, and you just ask that question and whatever the answer is, that's it's fine. There's no pressure. I like that. I like that a lot. Why does hearing someone's voice for 30 to 45 minutes build a deeper relationship than reading posts or watching short videos?

So I will tell, so I had a call yesterday with somebody that I've been Facebook friends with for years. She and I have followed each other. I've seen her photo, I've seen her posts, and my assumption about what her personality was like or how she would be was completely wrong. Like 100% wrong. What I assumed based off of her head shots and just her branding quite frankly, I was like a little bit intimidated.

I was like, she's such like a powerful business woman. I was like a little bit nervous, she could not be further from intimidating. Like we had such a connection. She was so sweet so open. It wasn't until having a whole 30 minute conversation with her that I really got to know her years of reading her posts, seeing her photos, interacting in the text, conversation over dm, completely off of who she actually is.

You just cannot get your actual personnel. You could. Try and you could definitely share stories, but once somebody actually hears you speak and they feel your energy, they just see how, you know how they interact with you, it's completely different. Like you just will never get a relationship to the point of actually knowing somebody until you hear them speak and.

Especially now, buyers clients, they need to feel that trust. They're not going to buy, they're not gonna sign up and work with you if they don't feel like they know you and they can trust you, and that's just not, you're not gonna, maybe you get 90% of the way there. They read your sales copy, they read your posts, they're like, I'm pretty sure it's the person they're not gonna buy unless they can hear you speak.

You hit the mark. Almost exact for networking, networking, communication. It's know you, like you, trust you. They'll do business with you and know you well. Everybody knows you. You're on LinkedIn, you're in every, everybody knows you, likes you. That narrows the field down just a little bit because everybody isn't gonna like you, but that trust factor.

That is so very important. And when you're speaking to them, 'cause now you're speaking to them and not just posting, that trust factor is going up and that wall between the two of you is going down. And once that wall goes down, once that trust factor goes up, then it's a home run and then you can discuss anything.

So yes you hit that right on the mark. Yeah. What should a coach do before a podcast interview to make sure the right listeners feel drawn to them afterwards? Ooh. Okay. So it's all about preparation. You want to be prepared for your podcast interviews, not only to be able to do everything we've already talked about, which is having a great conversation with the host, knowing what questions to ask, having an idea of who the host is but knowing what is the best content to talk about on that.

On that podcast, like what angle that podcast tends to go in. I know that you're a professional speaker. You talk about networking, like I came into this prepared that we're gonna get into some nuts and bolts. That's the vibe of your show. Whereas I've been on other shows where they're like going back to like my life story where it's totally different vibe.

So do. Your prep work to understand what the podcast is about and who the target audience is, and then come prepared with a proper next step, an invitation of where the listeners can go to learn more about you and to take the next step in, in spending more time with you. Because when a listener hears you on a podcast, that's probably the first time they're hearing you.

It's like that first coffee meet and. They're probably not gonna just reach out and wanna buy from you right away. There has to be a way for them to get more from you. So for example, I've interviewed Michael, your amazing host here on my podcast. And so my call to action if he gives me the opportunity is to say, go listen to Michael's interview on my podcast.

So hopefully they'll wanna listen to more episodes and get to know me. But it's also a way to. Give you value as a host who's giving me the spotlight on your show. And that's also really important in podcasting, is to find ways to give value to the host. Absolutely. And I, listen, I always give you that opportunity at the end of the podcast to say how people can contact you.

I've been on, I've been on hundreds of podcasts, and they, at the end of the the podcast, they say, okay, thank you very much. And that's it. I'm going don't you wanna contact me@michaelaforeman.com and oh yeah. Sure. And I'm going, why didn't you say that? But you know that it all depends on your podcasting.

But yes. Many guests focus on sounding impressive. What should they actually focus on if they want connection instead of applause? Oh my gosh. Share. Okay. This is so real for me right now. You have to share your story. Don't be afraid to share your failures. Share actually how you've come to learn the lessons that you're teaching, because I love the expression.

There are wins and there are learns. There are no failures in business. Any failure, quote unquote, is just a lesson learned. Some of them hurt more and are more expensive than others, but ultimately, every failure or mistake teaches us something. And so if you're going out there and teaching audiences.

Your lessons. How did you learn those lessons? What scars and wounds do you have to share? And don't be afraid to share the actual mistakes you've made to share the struggles that you've gone through or that you are going through. 'cause I think what most people are, I think a lot of co coaches and entrepreneurs are fine.

Being like, 10 years ago I was rock bottom, blah, blah, blah, but today I'm great. And it's you. Probably have cried in the last month if you're a business owner. I'm just gonna say that, so like it's okay to also share what you're going through now. And I've really experienced this over the last 90 days have been pretty intense for me.

My business partner left at the end of the year. I've restructured my business model. There have been really challenging moments and I've been sharing as much as I can. Some things like are more confidential than others, but by sharing. The challenges that I've experienced and the wins, but the challenges, that's actually what's created the deepest connection with my audience.

I've had people sign up to work with me who have followed me for years, not because suddenly the tips I'm giving are better. It's because I started sharing more vulnerably. I've started sharing like, wow I'm having cashflow issues. I had to extend my line of credit. It's been really tough, but I see the vision and I believe, and I have faith, and I'm going forward, and then I'll share the wins and it's yay, it's paying off.

So people are in it for the journey. Stories are good. When there is conflict. People are not watching a story for everything's great. They watch it for the conflict. And then how do you get through the conflict? So that's how you're gonna really compel people to want to connect with you. A Absolutely. I went to the school of hard knocks, right?

I, look, I did everything wrong before I did it correctly. And I had to learn and, I fell down. I got bruised, but I got back up. Yeah, and I fell down again a hundred times. I got, I fell down, but I got up 101 times, right? And all the bruises and everything, it all paid off because I can actually share that with my, the people that I'm speaking to about my failures, because I learned from the, my failures more so than my successes.

And that is just true from for any business. Yeah. And that's how as a leader, you're able to help other people. The best leaders, the best mentors, the best coaches are those who have been there, who have been where it's challenging. The story just popped into my head, but I like. Kind of pulling stories from stuff outside of business.

My daughter does competitive cheerleading, so she goes up and performs and she's in this routine. And at the big summit, which is like the grand finale of all the competitions down in Florida, Disney World, like it's super intense. It's a two and a half minute routine that they've all practiced for. And my daughter falls.

And the routine, it was heartbreaking. Like heartbreaking. She's in tears. And you know what her coaches say? I felt once too. I know exactly how you feel and you're gonna be okay. And hearing her coach say that to her that we have all fallen. I've seen like professional dancers post the videos of them falling on stage.

They've all been there. That's how you lead your student, your client, through a challenging time saying, I know exactly how that feels. I've been to the other side and I'm gonna help you get to the other side too. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm thinking of the Olympics. We just had the Olympics, the Winter Olympics, and the guy who was supposed to win everything when he fell.

Yes. All of a sudden you, you could hear a pin drop. He was like, oh my God. He fell and then he got, he was very upset. For that day. And afterwards he said there's this competition, this com, and I'm going there and I'm gonna win. It's like he picked himself back up, brushed himself off. He was upset.

He gave himself time to be upset, and he went right back into it. Yes that's very much okay. You believe podcasting is the most powerful visibility path for coaches right now? What does it do differently from other exposure methods? When it comes to relationships? It is just the most powerful way to just show who you are.

My, the thing that my dad taught me in business many years ago is that people hire you for who you are, not what you do. That like I am hiring a coach for who they are, not what they do. I have a business coach right now and there are lots of business coaches who could offer me the same package, who could offer me the same number of calls, who could help me grow my sales, who could help me with my team.

I hired this particular coach because of. Who he is and his experience and his approach to client experience, like it's who he is, not what he does. You can't communicate that outside of an actual verbal conversation. The stories make your stories make you who you are and podcasts are the way that you can tell those stories and really allow people to connect with you as a person.

Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more. You're a hundred percent correct. You talk about sharing vulnerable behind the scenes stories in real time. Why does appropriate vulnerability accelerate, accelerate trust in networking conversations? It's because everyone knows that we're all going through stuff behind the scenes, right?

Like I think one of the reasons that people hate networking is they're so sick of saying, how are you? And someone's saying, great. How are you? Great. And you're like, no, you're not. I'm not either. So fake. People are so tired of those fake answers. And so when you actually have. The courage and the bravery, to be honest.

Not to just do therapy from the stage. That's not what I'm talking about. 'cause it's important to share the full story. Not every day is bad, but also not every day is great. In the last week, I have had days where I am on fire whoa, I'm crushing it. And then days where I'm exhausted and stressed, like it's, that's what entrepreneurship is.

It's, but if you're not willing to be right. If you're not honest about that, then your content's out of alignment. Like alignment is when the outside matches the inside, when everything clicks into place. But if on the outside you're like, I'm great and everything's awesome, and then on the inside you're struggling, but you're not sharing that.

So it takes, it's an art. There's some nuance to it because. You wanna make sure you've properly processed feelings before you're bringing it to your audience. And you think through the full impact and the effect and why, like the energy of like, why am I sharing this? Like, all of that's super important, but I've shared things like.

Two weeks after it happened, like I had a, salesperson that left and I decided to eliminate the position of my company. I did it post it the day after she resigned. I gave myself a couple weeks to like, process and think about it, and then I'm like, okay, I have a story that's about this that I can share with my audience.

And it's, a post that's gotten more engagement than most of my other posts. Yeah, it's all about alignment and honesty. Absolutely. And I'm not sure if I shared this with you, with our podcast, when you walk into a networking event, you want to go in what's called a servant's heart.

And you, what you do is you don't talk business, because everybody's like afraid of that. Fake smile and like, how you doing? I'm okay. No, you're not. It's no just take all that, throw it away and just talk about anything else. And it, it takes that pressure off your shoulders so you can relax, you can enjoy.

And networking, as you well know, is a skill and a talent. So you're gonna have to practice practice before you get better. And what's a better way to practice than to go to start networking and just be free? You have to be free. Free yourself of the business. It'll come. Zig Ziglar, Bob Berg they all say the same thing.

Just it will come. It will come. So that's. I love that. Bob Berg. I love Bob. He was a friend of my dad's and when I was a new mom and like just working with my dad, he was, I live in Rhode Island and he was speaking at an event in Massachusetts and I went up and saw him speak and I brought my baby and he held my baby.

And I love Bob. Bob is great. Bob is way up on the speaker scale, right? Yeah. And when I. I about two months ago, I said, you know what the heck? I'm just going to invite him on my podcast. Just to say, so I sent him an email not expecting him to answer. The very next day, he said, Mike, I'd love to come onto your podcast.

When do you wanna sign it? It was just like, and he's so as, as great as he is. That's how humble he is. He's so great. Yeah. He is just, he is a great person and I can't say enough about him. Okay. Where's the line between being authentic and oversharing, especially when you're building a professional reputation?

Great question. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect segue from our last topic, and I think the line is. How are you good? Have you processed this or is it still hurting a little bit. I have a friend who's also a professional speaker and she's the one who I heard say don't do therapy from the stage, so you have to, are the emotions processed?

Can you share this? And have you reached the point where. You're clear on your next step. You're clear on the lessons. You're clear on what you're gonna take from this lesson if you're still in it, right? Like you're still like I, I went through something in my business. Last week that I, if I haven't really shared yet, and because it's fresh, right?

And I'm not at the point yet where there's it's ready to be shared. It's like you gotta let the storm pass before you can make it public. So I just think it, I had a mentor named Melanie Ann Laer that would always say the energy needs to be squeaky clean. If there's any kind of muck in the water, like you're feeling so a little bit frustrated about something like just hold off a minute.

'cause you've gotta show up and lead. And you can lead by being vulnerable and being honest about challenges. But a leader needs to be ready to have people follow them. Yes. And a leader. With my coaching clients the leader. You're teaching other leaders. You're helping give them the responsibility.

You're helping you, you share the blame. You do all that as opposed to being a boss, a boss, just middle management, barks, orders and walks away, but a leader is a mindset. And with my speaking, I always bring humor. And I'm always self-deprecating because that's the, I'm the easiest Mark.

I can just put myself down and everybody enjoys that and they get a big laugh and I can move on. But that gives me clarity, and it, the more that they laugh, the better I feel. And, so on and so forth. You're right, you don't do the therapy from the stage, but you feed off of the audience.

So I think another good kind of like litmus test is do you have the capacity to hold other people's opinions about what you're going to share? Because if you don't, you are not ready to share it yet. No, that's very good. That's very good. I gotta write that down. Okay. Good thing we're recording.

It's a good thing. Otherwise I'd have to, I'd be all over the place. After an interview airs what? Follow-up actions, turn listeners into real conversations and eventually clients. So you wanna get the listeners to actually connect with you because you are, think about it like you're going to somebody's house.

Like I'm at Michael's house right now. I'm at Michael's event right now, and I'm gonna leave after this. If I don't tell the listeners where to find me, how could I possibly follow? They can all go home too. And so if you want to be able to follow up and connect, there has to be a natural next step. For example, having my own podcast, having interviewed you on my show, that's a very natural next step.

Hey guys, when you're done with this party, I've got another party down the road. We're all gonna go there. And then, a certain percentage of them will light the show and then wanna listen to more episodes. If you don't have a podcast, maybe you post a lot on LinkedIn and you say, Hey guys come to my LinkedIn, send me a connection request.

Tell me you heard me on Michael's show and I'd love to connect with you. And then from there you can be posting, you can be my client Evan calls it building his choir and builds his choir on LinkedIn and then he posts and shares stories. And then again, it's just a natural next step.

People will then wanna, take the next step from there. Very good. Very good. What mistakes do guests make that quietly prevent listeners from ever reaching out, even when content was good? I think that's just it. They gave. Good content, but they didn't give great content. They didn't share stories.

They didn't allow their full personality to shine through. They just showed up and the energy was maybe a little bit flat. Like it wasn't bad, but it wasn't great. You know what I mean? That's another thing that my friend Jacqueline would say. She's like, when people walk away from interviews saying, yeah, you were really good.

They're not gonna become your client. It's when the listener says, oh my gosh, she was in my head. How did you know? That's what I was thinking. That's when people reach out and sign up and wanna work with you is when they feel like you are in their head. So having the content, not just be good, but having it be so aligned with your ideal client that it feels, they're like, how did you read my mind?

That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And that's the difference between good and great content. So it's really good. Okay, so we're gonna bring this podcast full circle. If a listener wanted to use podcast guesting to build meaningful relationships and opportunities in the next 90 days, what's one habit would that would create the biggest ripple effect?

So the first thing is to have a podcast, one sheet. Not so much a habit, but make it and know what your topics and questions are. Come, have a one sheet prepared and then have some regular outreach to podcast hosts. You'd have to get on the radar of podcast hosts who are looking for guests if you want to be.

Regular getting interviewed and converting clients. So a lot of people are like, I want this, but it's what action have you taken to make that happen? Nothing. I just want it like, take the action, make the one sheet, make the media kit, put it out on your LinkedIn that you're available to be interviewed.

You've gotta take some steps to get outta your comfort zone and start making it happen. Very good. Absolutely. Jessica, as I said in the beginning, if somebody wanted to get hold of you either to be coached by you to buy the services to get interview connections, all of that, how would they, what's the best way to find, to get hold of you?

So my website is interview connections.com. When you get there, I want you to click on the button that says podcast. It's at the top, and you're gonna listen to Michael's episode on my podcast. That's what I want you to do. Obviously, once you're at my website, you can choose your own adventure. You can book a call with me, but go check out my podcast, listen to the other side of the mic, and listen to me interview Michael.

That's great. Jessica, I'm telling you, we can probably talk for another two hours about everything going on but unfortunately it's just a podcast and not any longer. Or some people may think it's fortunate, but I don't know. Okay. This episode shows that networking at its best is simply a real conversation shared with intention.

When people hear you think, respond, and tell your story. Honestly, trust forms naturally and trust is what leads to relationships and opportunity. If you enjoyed this episode, do me a favor follow, subscribe to Networking and Unleashed, building Profitable Connections. So you keep getting practical insights on networking and communication, and share this with someone who's ready to be heard, ready to be heard, not just seen.

If you're interested in being a guest, collaborating or improving how you show up in conversations, visit michaelaforman.com to learn how I work with professionals, teams, and organizations. So until next time, have better conversations, stay consistent, and build connections that open real doors.

Jessica, thank you again for coming on my podcast. You were wonderful. Ah, thanks Michael. This was fun.

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  A huge thank you to our guests for sharing such incredible insights today, and of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in and spending your time with us. If you're interested in my digital courses being coached or having me come and talk to your company, just go to MichaelAForman.com and fill out the request form.

Remember, networking isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. So take what you've learned today, get out there and make some meaningful connections. If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a review. Share it with someone who could use a little networking inspiration.

Let's keep the conversation going. You can find me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my website michaelaforman.com/podcast.

Michael is a business networking expert specializing in enhancing professionals' networking and communication skills to drive profitability. As a leading authority in this field, he is highly sought after for his dynamic presentations and workshops. His extensive experience has consistently led to significant improvements in corporate profitability by empowering individuals and organizations to connect more effectively and efficiently.

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